Revolver quandary... Solved(pics)

Shanks4300

Shanks4300

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I'd like to add a wheel gun (357/38) to my collection, and as I look around I'm wondering if the older smiths are worth the prices they command. The gun would be a shooter, not a collector and I definitely don't want anything of low quality that will give me headaches. Was the build quality on the older smiths that much better than the newer ones? Is pinned and recessed that big a deal?

Is it worth looking for a older smith and wesson or should I just pick up a gp100 and be done with it?

What do you think?

Update:

This came in the mail yesterday; trigger feels pretty nice right out of the box, finish is good. Grip is a lot thinner than I thought it would be; might be able to get to the range tomorrow. My hand doesn't naturally seem to grip it high enough, so I guess I'll have a bit of a learning curve going between the CZ and this. Built in excuse to shoot it lots.



 
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Smiths are nice but I think they are a tad over priced considering the large production run. Grap a GP100 if you can even find one. If you want a shooter, the Alpha Proj are compact and light. They are trigger block style like the GP100s. I have held a Alpha at a shop - they are well made if you dont mind the font on the barrel. $520 at my LGS
 
Those that own an older S&W will tell you the difference.
I own one 14-3 .38 Spl and a 17-2 .22LR. Both of them older Smiths break clean @ 3.0lbs from the factory in single action.
Considering they are both target revolvers I'm pleased with the lockup, accuracy and triggers out of the box. Both have no doubt gone through thousands of rounds and still perform like new, but now have cosmetic blemishes through the years because they were shot, not safe queens.
Quality will always command a premium.

I've heard the new S&W's have investment casting parts and of course the new trigger lock. Don't know if that really makes a difference in the real world.
 
Older Smiths are worth the high prices and the hunting required to find them. If you want a .357 model the M19s from the 19-4 and earlier runs have some of the best double-action (the important one) triggers I've ever felt on a revolver. These usually run $600-800 depending on their condition and production run, and are absolutely worth the money if you plan to use the gun a lot. Because of the smaller cylinders with less mass, their triggers are probably the best in the category of guns you're looking at.

Unless you're dead-set on a .357, I would also keep an eye open for Model 14s. These Target Masterpieces are .38 Special only but are some of the best guns ever produced. If you buy one and aren't satisfied, let me know and I'll buy it from you.

On the pinned & recessed issue, it doesn't make any functional difference but it looks really nice. If you don't place a premium of that, then don't worry about it.

The L-frames (586/686) are also excellent. Used you'll only be able to find the 6"+ models. I wanted a shorter barrel for IPDA/IPSC so I got a new one. In comparing my 686-6 with a much earlier production 586-2, I found the difference in trigger pull and smoothness negligible though the 586 was a little bit nicer. The internal lock is ugly but hasn't given me any issues in thousands of rounds. My 686 has been beaten up a bit while I've crawled under and climbed over stuff, been holstered and drawn countless times, and generally put through the ringer. It's still problem-free. I wouldn't dismiss the new guns, but they aren't as pretty as the old ones in my view. The build quality is on par as long as your firearm is good from the factory.

That said, runs from Smith in the sot of 2009-ish era had a rough spell with misaligned barrels, machine marks visible on guns exteriors, and so on. I don't know what was happening there but I've not heard of problems with recent guns, though it's not like I'm particularly connected. I would imagine most of these guns have been fixed or are out of circulation now.

You will also see M27s and 28s from time to time though they are a bit rarer. These are big N-frame guns. I have girly piano hands and these are too big for my liking, but they're undeniably great guns as well. A Model 28-2 has the best DA trigger I've ever felt on a revolver, but it was an exceptional specimen and I'd guess there was some custom work done. Still, if you have big mitts, these are probably the most robust of the older .357s. If you like to shoot heavy loads then these would be the pick of the litter. They'd also be very good competition guns as their weight helps them stay on target (holsters and speedloaders for competing are scarce though, HKS 'slowloaders' don't count). Personally, if I could grow my hands and Safariland started making Comp III speedloaders for these guns I would be shooting one.
 
OP, don't underestimate the Taurus S&W clones. I have one in 38/357 with a 4in barrel and to tell the truth, it is glass smooth on the double action trigger pull and very accurate. It will shoot into 1 1/2in at 25 yards from a rested position with either the 38 or 357. It isn't fussy about ammo either. I even shot some 38 S&W through it to see what it would do. It shot lower and slightly to the right but still into nice small groups.

The Taurus runs around half the price of Colts or S&Ws. The Taurus is a clone of the S&W 5 screw models and made in Brazil. They come in stainless as well as blued.

Nothing against the Rugers either though.
 
Budget priced Smiths that are a little ratty do show up. And yes, they are worth the price. Pull the triggers on a variety and you'll reach the same conclusion. In stock form Smith wins out over the rest other than Colt or some exotics. But since you're looking at "budget" then Colt and the exotics aren't in the running anway. So Smith wins if comparing guns in stock condition. And since they are starting from an advantage even if the guns are slicked up it takes less to get a Smith buttery smooth and light than it does the rest. So advantage goes to the S&W again IMHO.

I've got a few Rugers and shot some others. I like the Rugers but the triggers do NOT compare to the S&W. Even a nicely slicked up Ruger I tried still had the little telltale "click" feel in the trigger when the cylinder stop is dropped just before the hammer breaks.

If your plan is to buy and own for a number of years I say hang the little extra cost. Over 10 years of ownership it'll be less than nothing. And you'll have a great gun with a great trigger.
 
Would have picked up a "shooter" S&W if I could find one in .22 or 9mm - but they are pretty scarce and sell almost immediately. Just don't want to add 38 special or 357 mag to my ammo stockpile and 44 mag is a bit too much to be shooting a couple of hundred rounds in a range outing.

In the mean time, really happy with my 9mm Alpha, so will tweak and play with that for a while. It's probably going to be a long time before any 929's show up on the EE at a decent price - haha

BCRider said:
Budget priced Smiths that are a little ratty do show up. And yes, they are worth the price. Pull the triggers on a variety and you'll reach the same conclusion. In stock form Smith wins out over the rest other than Colt or some exotics. But since you're looking at "budget" then Colt and the exotics aren't in the running anway. So Smith wins if comparing guns in stock condition. And since they are starting from an advantage even if the guns are slicked up it takes less to get a Smith buttery smooth and light than it does the rest. So advantage goes to the S&W again IMHO.

I've got a few Rugers and shot some others. I like the Rugers but the triggers do NOT compare to the S&W. Even a nicely slicked up Ruger I tried still had the little telltale "click" feel in the trigger when the cylinder stop is dropped just before the hammer breaks.

If your plan is to buy and own for a number of years I say hang the little extra cost. Over 10 years of ownership it'll be less than nothing. And you'll have a great gun with a great trigger.
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Ruger 4.2" and be done with it. If the addiction bites you hard (it will) and you NEED a S&W, save up and get a 586. The Ruger you will be able to beat on a bit as a range gun. The Smith you will cherish like one of your children.

...go ahead, ask me how I know!?
 
If you have 12-6, older S&W 4" barrel .357 such as model 19; would be a bargain, or if you prefer N frame and don't have prohib status, look for the model 27 which can be had in 5" barrel, but it will not be cheap, especially the older ones with excellent polishing and blueing, model 28 Highway Patrolman is the budget version of the 27, sold as a working gun for police, its not refine as the 27, comes in 4" or 6".

Older revolvers, such as Colt Officer Match Model or the pre war 5 screw long action S&W, post war 4 screw pinned barrel K or N frame are getting scare, IMHO their quality; trigger pull; blueing...etc are much better than those being offer today.
 
I have been wondering this myself.. I want a 357 revolver that can take a few generations of use without falling apart. I looked at the S&W 627 PC which I liked the feel of but the new smith horror stories have kept me from it. The other choice I like is getting an older S&W 27 but I wonder about durability when I purchase an already used system.. Currently I do own a S&W 17-2 that I absolutely love but it was definitely someones beater.
 
enefgee said:
There's a reason the best PPC revolvers are made on older K frames...
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Yes, when PPC popularity was at its peak...
- Most police department were using them
- Most PPC shooters were police officers
- Most gunsmith were used to working on S&W
- K frame were readily available 'lightly' used... and relatively cheap... (Remember the days when police dept. were selling their used gun to civilian?)
 
Excellent choice!

Now that Wolff is back to selling directly to Canadians I'd suggest that you buy a spring kit for it. It'll make a great gun even better.

In anticipation of using the gun in some speed focused matches where reloading is needed begin shopping for some Safariland speed loaders and a holster plug belt pouches for the speed loaders.

One last little tidbit. I've seen about 3 folks that use Rugers for speed style matches that had issues with unburned powder granules get under the ejection star. The "fix" is to ensure that when you eject the empty cases that you point the gun upwards so it's pretty much straight up and down as you reach over and push on the ejector rod. If you hold it level or at only a slight angle in a fast ejection it seems to throw the granules out of the cases and drop them into the gap. Going closer to vertical seems to stop this.

But even so add a toothbrush to your range kit and be prepared to brush out under the star if the cylinder becomes sticky to lock into the frame or swing out. It doesn't seem to be as big a deal if you're ejecting casually with less of a snap but it doesn't hurt to have the brush handy.
 
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