Revolver recoil question

josquin

josquin

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OK, I must be a wimp.

Recoil-sensitive with a .38 Special Model 10? So it seems. Even with moderate loads (4.0 gr. 231 and 158 gr. lead) I find that the bone at the base of my thumb gets whacked. Initially this was with the factory grips and a grip adaptor. (I use a wrap-around, "thumb-over-thumb" grip.) So I tried a Pachmayr Presentation grip. Feels a bit big for my medium hands but certainly has more "rubber real estate" to spread the recoil. Slightly better, but not much.

I noticed that when shooting single-action I got walloped less. Not much difference in how I was gripping the gun except that there may be a tiny change in the position relative to the bone of my thumb as I bring my trigger finger out to use the pad rather than the distal joint. I could try Hogues on it; I find they are the best on my 625-8 with stiffer loads, but they are kinda ugly and I don't really like finger grooves even though they seem to fit me. But I wonder of there isn't some slight adjustment I need to make in how I grip the gun as a .38 Special shouldn't hurt unless you're shooting +P or +P+ loads, although the Model 10 is a fairly light revolver. I don't recall any discomfort with my 6" Model 14 with the big target grips.

I had my Ruger SP101 out at the range as well, with moderate .357 loads: 12 gr. of 2400 over 158 gr. hard cast lead or Hornady XTP - really a "38-44 load". More blast of course. The XTP were a little less punishing, perhaps because they were going a littie slower. I was using the factory grips, which I find are pretty good. I have tried Hogues on it and it's about the same. Of course a small revolver like that is going to kick in .357.

I haven't done a lot of shooting this year so it may just be a matter of more shooting to toughen up the web of my hand?

This seems to only apply to revolvers. My STI Spartan .45 and Ruger SR45 are fine (5.7 gr. of 231 and a 200 gr. bullet)
 
ryan said:
Any arthritis going on, or old hand injury ?
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Nope :) I put this question on the S&W Forum as well and got some useful info. I'll just quote what was just posted:

Unless you have severe arthritis, shooting conventional factory loads from any K-frame should not hurt, regardless of strength. Getting used to battering your palm or joints may not be the best answer (even if it seems to work).

Hint #1:There is a good chance that when you shoot single action, you loosen/readjust/tighten your grip slightly after each shot while cocking the hammer. The gun may be shifting/twisting slightly during recoil, and you are adjusting for that in SA, but not while shooting DA.

Hint #2:This if nothing else should suggest that it may be the grip, not strength. The gun should not move in your hand to the point there is an impact to any bone. It is possible you are stabilizing the grips front to back more, and not enough side-to-side.

The dominant hand AND wrist should move with the recoil, the elbow and shoulder should function as pivots, and the muscles and tendons in the arm should be the shock absorber, not the palm. After absorbing the recoil, the muscles and tendons should resume the same position and help return to the point of aim. That is how muscle memory works in the gym when doing reps. (I know that is a lot of "should" in one paragraph...
rolleyes.gif
).
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So I thnk I need to do some exercises to strengthen my grip a bit, and readjust the way I grip the revolvers. I have a couple of fairly strong spring-loaded clamps in my workshop that might help, plus of course there are similar sports aids specifically designed for this. And excercise balls for the hands as well.
 
Interesting . My experience is the opposite , I have no problem keeping a 357 magnum in check but my 9mm polimer semi " jumps " specially if I shoot left ( weak ) hand.
I thought it's about the barrel length 8 inch revolver vs 5 inch semi ( also the low weight of the polimer frame )
 
josquin said:
Nope :) I put this question on the S&W Forum as well and got some useful info. I'll just quote what was just posted:



So I thnk I need to do some exercises to strengthen my grip a bit, and readjust the way I grip the revolvers. I have a couple of fairly strong spring-loaded clamps in my workshop that might help, plus of course there are similar sports aids specifically designed for this. And excercise balls for the hands as well.
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perhaps try the mantis 10x it will diagnose any grip related issues for you. Not only will that aid in recoil mitigation it will make you a better shot.
 
Everyone's hands are a bit different so it's possible you're hitting just the wrong match. But working on grip strength and gripping it firmly should help. Coaching from someone who can actually see you holding and shooting it would help; there's only so much we can guess across the Internet. And with revolvers, if you reload, developing some combination of ultra-light-charge loads, factory-equivalent, and magnum loads when applicable (not in the Model 10!) and doing workups where you don't know which is next can help resolve appropriate grip and flinching issues.

How much your finger has to reach forward for SA vs DA might be another clue, especially if your whole hand is moving to gain reach or coming back when the SA trigger is easier to get to. Maybe do some dry-fire practice comparing your grip and trigger pull in both modes.
 
Just a thought, we all know what when you pull the trigger in an ideal world, your grip should not be affected but it does. The longer trigger squeeze might influence your grip enough to make it hurt. You mention that you haven't been shooting much in the last year, maybe some dry firing and trigger finger exercises might help. BTW, I have the Hogue Mono grips on my Model 29 but couldn't stand them on my Model 19, go figure.
 
Try positioning the back strap of the revolver more towards the centre of your palm this should allow your hand, wrist and arm to be in better alignment.
 
Standardvel said:
Try positioning the back strap of the revolver more towards the centre of your palm this should allow your hand, wrist and arm to be in better alignment.
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Ideally, yes, but then the length of pull is too long. There was a recent post on the S&W Forum from a retired police instructor who taught LEOs when revolvers ruled that was very helpful.

The Hogue grips might be worth trying as they're not as thick over the top of the backstrap and may allow some cusihioning without adding too much "reach."

It seems to boil down to finding the right choice oif grip for my particular hands that will allow a proper grip that will allow the revolver to recoil without hitting that particular spot in the web of my hand. The weather sucks now but I might be able to get to the range again, plus some hand exercises and dry firing.
 
Herrett's Stocks will make a custom set of stocks for your revolver, you have to mail them a tracing of your hand etc. - call first, they are a very old fashioned company, and believe in actually communicating with their customers, not just firing off a canned email. I'm not sure of they still ship to Canada (they used to)
 
enefgee said:
Herrett's Stocks will make a custom set of stocks for your revolver, you have to mail them a tracing of your hand etc. - call first, they are a very old fashioned company, and believe in actually communicating with their customers, not just firing off a canned email. I'm not sure of they still ship to Canada (they used to)
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Yes, I know about Herret's custom grips. Not cheap, but a really good fit. I'm not going to go that route for a mere .38 Special, though (!)

And now that the PCR requirement has been lifted for short visits to the US, I can have stuff sent to my gf's place in Bellingham again :) :) :) I'm headed down there on Dec.7. No way I'm going on the first day (next Tuesday)- I want to wait until they've got the bugs worked out. She already has a birthday and a Christmas gift for me that have been collecting dust there and I've just ordered a couple of things :) Might even order a Hogue grip as they're cheaper on Amazon US.

I just hope everything hasn't washed away by a week Tuedsay. I woke up several times last night to the "Pineapple Express". 53º F and solid rain. Let's at least have some pineapples so we can make piña coladas!
 
I have Med hands ( size 9 gloves are a good fit)
On my Model 19 , 4 in ,I have always used rubber Pac. Gripper , just feel good, my Granddaughter was shooting it last year.
Last time I have been out , as my hands are going down hill.

My model 14 ,38 sp I use Hoque's finger groove , rubber. they are quite thin . I don't shoot 357 M any more.
They have a soft rubber back strap
The grip strap should be pushed right into web of thump, mind , no one showed me, mainly shooting bulls eye at home.
If I can load the picture this is a spare K frame I have , that I don't need, same as the model 19, have another set I think for Ruger??
grip.jpg
 

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A good quality set of Bodybuilding/Workout gloves with padded palms might help. The also have cutoff fingers for dexterity and an elastic back - support without cutting off circulation.

Canadian Tire for about $30 or so, or padded work gloves at Home Depot.
 
I will add, the small fractory standard grips, with a filler at the front had always had a hate on for me, Hate them.
factory target grips are fine, just a bit large.
Most of my shooting is double action, unless I am shooting long range off a bench.
Would be interesting if you could try a few different guns/ grips to check fit.
I have made a few sets over the years, but these days that is out.
 
coldestcanuck said:
Model 10 and model 14 are both k-frames. If you use the same grips on the 10 as you do on the 14 and the same loads, you shouldn't notice any difference.
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I thought of puttiing the big targets on the Model 10 just to see if it made a difference, but they'd look kinda ridiculous on that gun so it wold only be an experiment.
 
Your original post might be onto something, as coldestcanuck suggested. Throw some targets on it and see if it feels better.

I have these on a k frame and they are comfortable as hell. What pistol? Only a 17-3 haha but I have a similar set on my 29-2 and it is easy to shoot with them as well. I know the scale is different and that can affect grip, but in my very limited experience finger grooves help me maintain a more consistent grip regardless of frame size. Doesn't add anything to the backstrap but may add slightly more in width.

I'm no revolver expert though, just my personal experience.

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deadman said:
Your original post might be onto something, as coldestcanuck suggested. Throw some targets on it and see if it feels better.

I have these on a k frame and they are comfortable as hell...
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I generally don't like finger grooves but I do have Hogues on my 625-8 and they make it tolerable with fairly stiff 250gr RNFP loads. in auto-rim brass. I've had some good comments on the S&W forum, too. As someone said, "fit is everything" and different grips have subtle differences that can work or not, depending on our hands.
 
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