Rifle Basix or SSS trigger for Stevens 200?

gitrdun

gitrdun

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Rifle Basix has two offerings:

SAV-1 which is basically using the original trigger housing and simply provides a new trigger and safety mechanism for around $85.00

SAV-2 which consists of a whole new trigger assembly and sell for around $150.00

Sharp Shooter Supply has the old style competition trigger which is a complete replacement and sells for $85.00

These are my current choices, has anyone used any of these or perhaps others that you might recommend. :)
 
I have a SSS trigger and it installed and set up quite well. My trigger is light, around 2.5 lbs, and had no tendency towards accidental discharge, as tested by banging the rifle on a wood floor to see if a jolt could set it off. Not sure if its the "old style competition trigger" or not. It was around $85.00 purchased directly from them.
 
I came to the conclusion that the safety is no longer reliable with a RB Sav2 trigger, raise and lower the bolt handle twenty times working the safety each time and see what happens. Later on I learned a few top smiths for the US already knew that. I do prefer the Rifle Basics Sav2 for target, much better. For hunting the stock trigger is perfectly fine.
 
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PEI ROB said:
I came to the conclusion that the safety is no longer reliable with a SSS trigger, raise and lower the bolt handle twenty times working the safety each time and see what happens. Later on I learned a few top smiths for the US already knew that. I prefer the Rifle Basics Sav2 for target, much better. For hunting the stock trigger is perfectly fine.
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Elaborate please. What do you want done with the safety to create an accidental discharge? The bolt won't open with the safety on, I can wiggle it up and down 50 times and not get it to drop the hammer either with the safety on or off. I can cycle the bolt ad infinitem while safety is off then full safety then off, still no hammer dropping. That's a pretty serious allegation you are making, I'd like to hear exactly what you are doing that causes it to drop the hammer, and would only take it seriously if its something that is within the realm of possibilities that someone might do. Are you sure you have the trigger adjusted properly, especially respecting its relationship to the safety?
 
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I just tuned up the stock trigger it was not too difficult. Found the procedure, A scan of what seems to be some savage documentation on Savageshooters.com.
 
:eek: My very bad, the Rifle Basix Sav 2 safety is not functional when the trigger is set low. Moving the safety causes the sear to creep and discharge. My apologies, the SSS trigger safety WORKS FINE. For some reason I wrote SSS even though I knew Fred's still worked. I have both for target and I don't use a safety so that is why I still prefer the RB Sav2, I find it will set much better. I would never use the safety on a RB Sav2 trigger set low. You don't need to work the handle, just work the safety back and forth, if you have it set low it will drop the sear soon enough.
 
And to add, some will disagree but I have had 2 US gunsmiths PM me confirming it and wondering if I had worked at it to get it to function. No matter what they or I did, when set low, they creep with every safety movement and will eventually release. Mine can go as low as 4oz but I like 6oz better because I had a few "early releases" when setting my finger pad on the trigger to firmly.

I could only get my SSS trigger down to about 16oz IIRC, but that was without timing the bolt or any other bolt mods. I think Fred's final effort with all the tricks was a crisp 12-14oz.
 
If you want a trigger around 1lbs, go SSS. If you want lighter, go RB2.

The issue with the RB2 is not with the trigger group but with the Savage sear itself. As a folded piece of stamped steel, there is variations in the length of the 'tongue' - part that engages the trigger group.

If you get a 'short' one, there is not enough sear engagement and the sear will trip either with the safety movement or a sharp hit. NO GOOD.

By modifying the part the sear contacts in the trigger group (damn if I can come up with a name for it now), problem is resolved.

I have mine set to around 4ozs and the safety works just fine. Also, hard hits will not jar the sear.

Unfortunately, not a problem RB can fix as it varies with the rifle itself.

The solution to a skipping sear is to increase the 'weight' of the trigger which defeats the whole point of using this trigger group. Or moding that part.

Surprised that these smiths didn't find a solution...

Jerry
 
I'm not sure about that M, the sear engagement is very adjustable on the RB Sav2 to eliminate creep. One thing I saw on mine was a poor angle match to the sear, of course open to further reduce effort. If the sear's were shorter it seems to me the contact would be closer to 90. One problem is when the safety is moved from the middle [safe but still can open bolt] position to the fire position, the trigger "flicks" back a bit and it moves the sear release a touch. The amount of movement is how the trigger is set up. The safety must rub the adjustment screw and take up slack so we cannot pull the trigger and have enough flex to release the sear but the overtravel screw must be set so we can actually release the sear. It is this gap or difference between adjustment scews that eventually causes the unwanted release. As the Safety is moved forwards, the edge of the safety slides past the allen screw and the trigger "flicks" to the next screw, the overtravel screw. Since the trigger is allowed to "flick" the sear release arm [don't know the name either :p ] creeps a tiny bit.

Push your trigger all the way forwards and let it go, bet you can't do that 5 times without a release. This is the same as moving the safety except greatly amplified. I will continue to use this trigger for target though, feels great and works fine otherwise.

Cheers,
Rob
 
PEI ROB said:
One problem is when the safety is moved from the middle [safe but still can open bolt] position to the fire position, the trigger "flicks" back a bit and it moves the sear release a touch.
Click to expand...

This is where you need to use the weight spring to stop this movement. Controlled by the vertical allen screw and spring at the low/front of the trigger group. By increasing the pull weight ie allen screw in, the sear release thingy doesn't move.

Now if you have min sear contact, ie sear too short, no amount of pull weight increase will stop this from happening because there simply isn't enough metal on metal contact.

By changing the amount of contact (mine has ALOT), the sear can never skip over the ledge in that release part even with low spring/pull weight pressure. I can do a bolt slam test without discharge.

It took me ALOT of screwing around to figure this out. Yes, I can flick my trigger forward or muck with the safety without discharge even with very light trigger pull weight.

When all is well with that sear thingy, the safety and overtravel screws in the trigger have no effect on accidental release when the safety lever is moved.

This is very dependent on the individual action...

I had one action where the trigger was inoperable because the sear made no contact with that release thingy. You could never #### the rifle.

I now have another where the sear is too long and the trigger cannot drop the sear ie can't fire the rifle. Will try swapping sears and see if that solves BOTH rifles.

Jerry
 
I should elaborate a bit, the rifle in question is a hunting rig, not a target rifle. I don't need nor want for that matter to go anything lower than 2 lbs. But my safety has to remain reliable. I guess based on what I'm reading here is that the SSS trigger is probably a good choice, for me anyways. Good posts guys. :)
 
gitrdun, try a trigger job on the Stevens, 3-4 lbs no problem.
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I've backed off the setscrew in which the end of the tension spring rod thingy sits in. But that's all that I can see as far as an adjustment is concerned. I don't like the residual creep though. Do you have an instructions on how to do anything other than that?
 
t, no idea myself but its totally different than the Savage set up.

gitrdun, I posted this before and it doesn't involve honing. I did learn a trick from a BC gunsmith and he thinned the tension wire. You can lay it on sandpaper and work the wire back and forth to flatten one side a bit then the other but not too much. This makes that tension wire weaker yet still functional. Otherwise find a piece of .035" - .040" spring wire as a replacement. This should do the job for a hunting rifle.
PEI ROB said:
Clean the sear and trigger with lighter fluid to remove the lube that is there.
Apply nothing else except the lighter fliud, it is the only lube needed.
Dry fire at least 50 times, this will help mate in the sear and trigger surfaces, BUT it also rounds off the nice sharp edges. Deburring on a magnified level is the goal not wearing it out.
Make sure you grease your bolt head lugs first to prevent galling.

If you can, I would replace the trigger tension wire with another wire spring that is .035" - .040".
There must be tension on this wire at all times, the rifle will be unsafe otherwise.
Once you have adjusted the trigger weight screw, test it by firmly tapping on the action with a rubber mallet from various angles. Again I stress this, there must be tension on this wire at all times to ensure the trigger will catch the sear.

The rear most screw at the rear of the trigger is to set the safety. The screw just in front of that is the overtravel screw. Screw this in until it hits the safety. #### the rifle and screw this out until the sear can be released with a trigger pull. Turn out an additional 1/2 turn.

The safety screw should lightly rub on the safety when applied. I lube mine and keep them a little tight to ensure they work. If you look closely above the trigger you will see an adjustment screw on the safety itself. This screw pushes against the action and forces the top of the safety, where you place your thumb, down onto the action and the front of the safety down into the pin in the trigger housing, this eliminates any verticle play. #### the rifle and apply the safety. Screw in the safety adjustment screw until it touches the safety.

Test your adjustments when finished. Reassemble and retest. I use a rubber mallet to tap on the action, muzzle and sides of the stock and also slam the buttstock on a firm floor several times to be certain.

3 lbs minimum,
Cheers,
Rob
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I found an article by Ken Russo, basically I follow that for a hunting rifle.
Adjustment of the Savage 110 Series Trigger

Before we begin, you should understand that the Savage Factory Trigger in 110 series rifles is a simple yet effective trigger capable of holding a setting to about three
pounds. It has adjustments for lightness of pull, trigger creep, over travel and safety engagement. The Savage trigger should not be stoned, or filed down at the sear
in order to reduce the pull weight. Lubricating the sear with a dry moly powder and dry firing the rifle 40-50 times will smooth out (break-in) the sear and provide
smoother function. Savage rifles can be dry-fired without any adverse effect on the rifles.
Those desiring a lighter trigger than three pounds should consider a good after market trigger like the Sharp Shooter’s Supply or Rifle-Basix triggers. Adjustment of
triggers should only be performed by mechanically inclined individuals who have a good understanding of mechanics and more than your average dose of common
sense. It is important to keep in mind that setting a trigger too lightly can and most often does result in accidental discharges and slam fires (round discharged from
closing the bolt on a live round) as well as safety induced discharges from improper trigger adjustments. Use caution in following these directions and never use live
ammunition to test the function of any rifle’s safely mechanism. I was lucky enough to attend the Savage Law Enforcement Armorer’s School and think these
directions are easy enough to follow safely. Use Lock-Tite thread locker in order to secure any adjustments made to your rifles trigger mechanism. Anyone who has
any reservations about making these adjustments should seek the assistance of a qualified gunsmith. The small amount of money you’ll pay a quality gunsmith for this
service is well worth the peace of mind in that you’ll have a safe rifle.

This is a small diagram of the Savage model 110 Series (which includes 10/12 type short action rifles and 110/112 long action rifles) trigger group. this pic is not the one in Ken's article, it is from Claude Gatewood's. The pencil is pointing at the safety adjustment screw. There is also a screw on the safety itself, not shown.

image014.jpg


Steps to follow:
1) Remove the rifle from the stock by removing the action screws in front of and behind the trigger guard.
2) Minor adjustments to weight of trigger pull can be made by adjusting the tension on the trigger spring with Screw #5. Remember to keep some pressure on this
spring in order to insure proper function. Setting the spring to lightly can prevent proper trigger recovery/re-engagement. Make sure the spring rests in one of the
opposing notches in the screw head to secure the adjustment.
3) Screw #1 is to adjust the smooth travel of the safety lever. The safety lever should have no up/down (play) movement. It is also important to understand that this
adjustment is usually not often necessary, but require the trigger be removed from the action in order to access the top of the screw.
4) Screw #2 should be loosened with the bolt cocked. Turn to loosen until the sear releases. To re-set the sear engagement, you must turn the screw back in a
minimum of 1/2 turn. The minimum safe sear engagement is .015”. Once this is achieved, re-#### the action and adjust the safety screw.
5) Adjustment of the safety screw should be done with the safety “ON”. Adjust the safety screw to slightly touch the safety bar but not interfere with it’s operation.
The rifle’s safety should be tested wile unloaded and while aggressively cocking the bolt handle and also bumping the rifle butt on the floor to attempt to make
the rifle dry fire. Perform this with the safety on and off. If the rifle does not pass this test, re-check your safety adjustment and sear engagement settings.
6) To set the trigger for overtravel, turn screw #4 with the bolt un-cocked.
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SET THE SAVAGE FACTORY TRIGGER BELOW THREE POUNDS. SLAM FIRES AND OTHER TYPES OF ACCIDENTAL
DISCHARGES ARE PROBABLE IF THIS GENERAL RULE IS IGNORED.
7) Use lock-tite to set all of the screws adjusted in your project. Use dry lube (moly-powder) on the sear for lubrication and dry fire the rifle to break in the setting
and get used to the new lighter pull weight. Never point a rifle towards anyone. treat all weapons as if they are loaded.
Shoot Safely
Ken Russo
Click to expand...
 
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Thanks for the info Rob. I think that I'm going to go with the SSS. The hunt for a proper springsteel wire and the correct bending of this material makes an aftermarket trigger an attractive option, especially at $85.00
 
I edited above, couldn't get the pic in there. The Stevens doesn't have a screw #2.

Yes, the SSS trigger is a good deal at $85
 
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