Thunderhog
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Kootneys
Hey Barry,
Apparently they are using the 223 Remington for everything these days.
Low recoil, with cheap ammo!….
Lol
Rifle/cartridge for Cape Buffalo
- Thread starter buckbrushoutdoors
- Start date
Apparently they are using the 223 Remington for everything these days.
Low recoil, with cheap ammo!….
Lol
- Location
- Saskatchewan
What Dogleg said. I've only shot three cape buffalo so far, two with a .450-400 3" and one with a .375. They all worked OK, but I don't like recoil much. I know I shoot better with "lighter" recoiling rifles. However, there's no denying bigger is better in some situations. African PH's I've hunted with prefer .470 Nitro Express, .458 Lott, .416 Remington, and only one carried a .375 for dangerous game. If you're not recoil averse the .458 Lott has the best reputation of the bunch. But I've never met a PH who said a .375 is no good.
I hunted elephant with a rented .416 Remington. It was easier to shoot well than I'd imagined, and when we snuck in really close to groups of elephants in thick cover I found myself wishing I was carrying an even bigger bore rifle. So perhaps recoil shyness depends on the situation and is more mental than we usually admit.
Bullets do matter. I once witnessed a standard cup and core .375 bullet ( Federal blue box 300 gr. RN) break up and fail to penetrate a well shot Cape buffalo bull. Bull was leaning forward on a sloped riverbank. At the shot, his front leg / humerus bone was covering the top of the heart aiming point. Bullet failed to penetrate past the bone, other than a few bits of core or jacket that hit the one lung on the near side. That resulted in a couple hours of high anxiety as we cautiously tracked the wounded bull and his several healthy companions in the thick river valley jesse. The trouble would have been avoided if the bullet would have been a Swift A frame, Trophy Bonded, Barnes TSX, North Fork Cup point, or one of several other good tough controlled expansion bullets.
The buff I took a couple days later with better .375 300 gr. Swift A frame bullet seemed easy by comparison.
I hunted elephant with a rented .416 Remington. It was easier to shoot well than I'd imagined, and when we snuck in really close to groups of elephants in thick cover I found myself wishing I was carrying an even bigger bore rifle. So perhaps recoil shyness depends on the situation and is more mental than we usually admit.
Bullets do matter. I once witnessed a standard cup and core .375 bullet ( Federal blue box 300 gr. RN) break up and fail to penetrate a well shot Cape buffalo bull. Bull was leaning forward on a sloped riverbank. At the shot, his front leg / humerus bone was covering the top of the heart aiming point. Bullet failed to penetrate past the bone, other than a few bits of core or jacket that hit the one lung on the near side. That resulted in a couple hours of high anxiety as we cautiously tracked the wounded bull and his several healthy companions in the thick river valley jesse. The trouble would have been avoided if the bullet would have been a Swift A frame, Trophy Bonded, Barnes TSX, North Fork Cup point, or one of several other good tough controlled expansion bullets.
The buff I took a couple days later with better .375 300 gr. Swift A frame bullet seemed easy by comparison.
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I've only shot 2 buff -- one with a .375 H&H and the other with a .450-400. Two animals isn't enough to draw any meaningful conclusions from, but I have shot a handful of giraffe with each cartridge too. Overall, if I was tracking buffalo I'd prefer to be carrying the .450 -- it just kills bigger stuff a bit faster. But if I was out for a general day in the field with buff on the menu along with all the usual antelope, I'd carry the .375 -- the bullet trajectory makes it by far the better choice if the same day could see you shooting a broad range critters both close in and far away.
Yep, 77 grain in .223 should work great for buffaloHey Barry,
Apparently they are using the 223 Remington for everything these days.
Low recoil, with cheap ammo!….
Those 77gr tipped match kings work like magicYep, 77 grain in .223 should work great for buffalo
We are pleased to offer a Holland double rifle SN 19353 that has never been offered for sale on the Canadian market. This rifle was built in 1907 for one 'Mr. Grant". The rifle is 375 bore, 2 1/2" flanged nitro express. Included with the rifle are 4 sealed boxes and 1 partial box (total 47) original 375 express cartridges.
<https ://joesalter.ca/products/holland-and-holland-royal-double-rifle>
<https ://joesalter.ca/products/holland-and-holland-royal-double-rifle>
I've got a .375 H&H which is totally reasonable from a recoil perspective even though it's quite light. If I were to pick up and go tomorrow, that would be the one (it needs a scope still, but let's pretend that's dealt with). But it's a stainless/synthetic gun and for a once in an lifetime hunt, I'd probably want a once in a lifetime rifle.
If I were to build something for the task, I wouldn't be opposed to another .375 H&H, but if I am able to add weight with a heavier contour barrel and maybe a recoil reducer along with a premium recoil pad, I may consider stepping up the spiciness with a .375 Weatherby Mag. Just a touch more authority there. Alternatively, anything that can take a .375 H&H can also take a .416 Rem Mag, and I'm definitely not opposed to one of those either.
.375 Ruger is a practical upgrade over the H&H, and the .416 variant comes close to the performance of the bigger .416s as well.
But if I'm honest, especially if I'm going to build something rather than buy, it would *probably* be a .404 Jeffery. Not for any reason other than I like it. Rim diameter-wise I'm not sure if you'd even need to change anything on a standard .540 Magnum rim, so it's probably just a matter of finding a good barrel to go with the receiver and get a Smith to put it together.
If I were to build something for the task, I wouldn't be opposed to another .375 H&H, but if I am able to add weight with a heavier contour barrel and maybe a recoil reducer along with a premium recoil pad, I may consider stepping up the spiciness with a .375 Weatherby Mag. Just a touch more authority there. Alternatively, anything that can take a .375 H&H can also take a .416 Rem Mag, and I'm definitely not opposed to one of those either.
.375 Ruger is a practical upgrade over the H&H, and the .416 variant comes close to the performance of the bigger .416s as well.
But if I'm honest, especially if I'm going to build something rather than buy, it would *probably* be a .404 Jeffery. Not for any reason other than I like it. Rim diameter-wise I'm not sure if you'd even need to change anything on a standard .540 Magnum rim, so it's probably just a matter of finding a good barrel to go with the receiver and get a Smith to put it together.
From personal experience, I would suggest something .40 cal or bigger. The .375 has killed many Buffalo and does it well, but does it under ideal conditions. A good .416 of whatever suits your fancy is a much better choice. It will reliably take Buffalo from almost any angle and can still reach way out there for plains game. Nearly as versatile as a .375, but with a little better penetration, particularly when it matters. Pick quality bullets, Swift A Frame, Woodleigh weldcore softs and solids, Barnes TTSX, and Barnes Solids. I have also used a .450 NE and a .500 NE. They do work great but give up a little in distance shots for plains game. Buff are mostly shot very close.
Back in the day 303 Brit was used all the way up to elephant !A Remington Model 8 in 35 Rem did the job in 1913
if you are going to africa to hunt you can afford ammo
You can deduce from the previous posts that bigger is better, as long as you can shoot it well... lots of experience above. You have also learned, what everyone before you discovered... once you hunt Africa, it gets in your blood and you will be plotting and planning a return as soon as you get home!
Something yet to be clearly articulated, at least in what I have read above, is the difference between "Hunting" a buffalo, and "Tracking" a wounded buffalo. For hunting, any legal cartridge with proper bullets (A-Frame, TSX, Bonded Woodleigh's, TBBC's etc...) will work. If you end up in a scenario, like the one described by Longwalker, above, I would prefer to not be carrying the bare minimum, although in a charge scenario, you will not be the only one shooting, in fact, you may not even get off a shot before it is all over... even still, I am a fan of a versatile, handy .458... in Carbine form. The "little" .458 Win Mag, will do pretty much as well as the Lott when set-up properly... I have both. My Lott is in a heavy RSM, which is less wieldy than the Win Mag Carbine that was purpose built for your exact scenario, which, for the time being is whacking bears prior to its journey to Zim. The scope is an illuminated 2-7, with a good field of view and is very quick to get on target... it also pops off in 5 seconds and the irons are sighted at 50 yards, but just as good at 5. Building what you want is a reasonable and relatively affordable option.
Something yet to be clearly articulated, at least in what I have read above, is the difference between "Hunting" a buffalo, and "Tracking" a wounded buffalo. For hunting, any legal cartridge with proper bullets (A-Frame, TSX, Bonded Woodleigh's, TBBC's etc...) will work. If you end up in a scenario, like the one described by Longwalker, above, I would prefer to not be carrying the bare minimum, although in a charge scenario, you will not be the only one shooting, in fact, you may not even get off a shot before it is all over... even still, I am a fan of a versatile, handy .458... in Carbine form. The "little" .458 Win Mag, will do pretty much as well as the Lott when set-up properly... I have both. My Lott is in a heavy RSM, which is less wieldy than the Win Mag Carbine that was purpose built for your exact scenario, which, for the time being is whacking bears prior to its journey to Zim. The scope is an illuminated 2-7, with a good field of view and is very quick to get on target... it also pops off in 5 seconds and the irons are sighted at 50 yards, but just as good at 5. Building what you want is a reasonable and relatively affordable option.
I will never be hunting Cape Buffalo, so take this for what it is worth...
I would use 9.3 x 62 for four reasons; I have one; this caliber has been used successfully on Cape Buffalo for a bit over 100 years; The rifle is light enough to carry all day, and the Mauser Action with huge extraction, positive ejection and controlled feed assures rapid follow-up shots. Nothing wrong with a .375 H & H either.
I would use 9.3 x 62 for four reasons; I have one; this caliber has been used successfully on Cape Buffalo for a bit over 100 years; The rifle is light enough to carry all day, and the Mauser Action with huge extraction, positive ejection and controlled feed assures rapid follow-up shots. Nothing wrong with a .375 H & H either.
Of course it did. The 8's are magic. - danA Remington Model 8 in 35 Rem did the job in 1913
Licensed to kill
CGN Regular
- Location
- Peace Country Alberta
I can not offer any anecdotal evidence or advice, however, I would suggest (as has some others) to consult the outfitter. Even if you find someone here that has killed a dozen buffaloes, they probably did it with a limited number of calibres ( since most people have a favourite rifle for certain disciplines). The PH will have experience with MANY buffalos kills with a WIDE array of guns/calibres AND they have a vested interest in giving the best advice for success. Personally, I would WANT to take either my Shiloh 45-90, my AHenry double .500 BPE or my 45 whitworth ML but I would still ask the PH for advice and would park all three if the PH recommended it and get something else as, for all I know, neither of those are suitable, just the hardest hitting ones I currently have.
The Bison (aka Buffalo) is considered to be both larger and faster than the Buffalo with a larger head and more massive shoulders.
The 375 rule (and 400 for Elephant) was brought in as a Roadblock to stop Farmers and others of modest means with their 303's, 30-06's, and 8mm's as one needed real money to buy guns like that. One can read about the snobbery of the East African Game Officials in Edison Marshall's books.
Prior to the Model 70 in 375 and later in 458, there were no American rifles meeting these criteria.
These guys are killing ~1000 Bison/year with regulations that state some variation of 150gr bullet or larger.
The 375 rule (and 400 for Elephant) was brought in as a Roadblock to stop Farmers and others of modest means with their 303's, 30-06's, and 8mm's as one needed real money to buy guns like that. One can read about the snobbery of the East African Game Officials in Edison Marshall's books.
Prior to the Model 70 in 375 and later in 458, there were no American rifles meeting these criteria.
These guys are killing ~1000 Bison/year with regulations that state some variation of 150gr bullet or larger.
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Regulations posted for indigenous folks hunting bison in North America has something to do with choosing a rifle for African Cape buffalo? I didn't know that.
Before giving that much consideration I remembered that I've personally bumped into prides of lions on two occasions while hunting cape buffalo, in Zimbabwe and in Mozambique. And several elephants in Namibia and Zimbabwe too. While I wasn't hunting either lions or elephants, they sometimes take exception to intrusions. Might they possibly be another good reason to carry a rifle shooting bullets that are over .30 caliber and weighing more than 150 grains?
Before giving that much consideration I remembered that I've personally bumped into prides of lions on two occasions while hunting cape buffalo, in Zimbabwe and in Mozambique. And several elephants in Namibia and Zimbabwe too. While I wasn't hunting either lions or elephants, they sometimes take exception to intrusions. Might they possibly be another good reason to carry a rifle shooting bullets that are over .30 caliber and weighing more than 150 grains?
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