Rifle Die Sets.
- Thread starter RT
- Start date
Avalonthas
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Toronto ON
Full Length size die will return your brass to standard SAMMI specifications (factory sizing). You do this on any brass that is not yours to be safe, and you do this if you want your brass to fit into any rifle or in a semi auto, as it has loose tolerances.
Neck sizing die is for brass that you have fired in a single rifle and intend to use it in that rifle going forward, as the brass has expanded to fit your exact chamber size so its nice and tight improving accuracy. Thus it just corrects the neck to standard size as it too stretches with each firing, and will allow proper seating of a bullet, etc. Because you are only working the neck as opposed to the whole body of the brass, you will find your brass tends to last more reloadings due to less stress.
You should always have a full length sizer for various purposes, the neck sizer is optional but highly recommended. I like the Lee Collet neck sizing dies
Neck sizing die is for brass that you have fired in a single rifle and intend to use it in that rifle going forward, as the brass has expanded to fit your exact chamber size so its nice and tight improving accuracy. Thus it just corrects the neck to standard size as it too stretches with each firing, and will allow proper seating of a bullet, etc. Because you are only working the neck as opposed to the whole body of the brass, you will find your brass tends to last more reloadings due to less stress.
You should always have a full length sizer for various purposes, the neck sizer is optional but highly recommended. I like the Lee Collet neck sizing dies
deadeyes40
CGN Regular
- Location
- nova scotia
you can also neck size with your fL die by not adjusting it down all the way to the shell holder.
Most beginners and a fair cross-section of experienced loaders would be farther ahead if they forgot everything they ever heard about neck-sizing and partial neck sizing. The beginners would be making ammo that actually chambers in their guns, and the experienced guys should pick up a set or three of Redding competition shell-holders so they can do what they think they're doing correctly.
Fact is, the beginner will do a better chamber matching job with a comp shell holder set and a couple sentences of instruction than the "expert" ever will with daylight between his holder and die. Besides, its easier. If you have multiple rifles in the same calibers it makes it easy to tailor the sizing to each rifle without changing or resetting the die.
Fact is, the beginner will do a better chamber matching job with a comp shell holder set and a couple sentences of instruction than the "expert" ever will with daylight between his holder and die. Besides, its easier. If you have multiple rifles in the same calibers it makes it easy to tailor the sizing to each rifle without changing or resetting the die.
Idiot proof way of adjusting "case" headspace.
NShunter1254
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia Canada
I would like to see that book.Internets a pretty big space.I have learned more right here on gunnutz then i ever have from a reloading book.That being said i'm a firm believer in researching multiple sources of information and using common sense to weed out the trash.
I have to say that most of my general knowledge came from books. When it comes to caliber/gun specific reloading, such as reloading for the m14 platform, the internet was irreplaceable. My point being that for the most part a good book will go into way more details then someone typing a few dozen lines on the internet.
Yomama got it in one sentence.
A set of shellholders ranges from standard to .010" thicker than standard. When starting with new cases I'll use the 10 thou over shell holder, adjusted down plus 1/4 turn or a bit more. Whatever it takes that the shellholder is bottomed out on the die. That takes out all the spring in the press, but won't oversize the case because the thicker shellholder prevents it. I'll use it until the cases start to chamber with a bit more effort on the bolt handle than I want. At that time its just a matter of changing to the next thinner, then the next until you just feel a tiny bit of resistance. When get the right one write the number down in the die box with a sharpie with the name of the rifle as well if you have more than one in that caliber.
The shell-holders go down in increments of .002" which gives a degree of control that the twist and hope guy can only imagine. One turn of a die is right around 72 thousandths. A guy carefully sneaking up to the shoulder 1/8 of turn at a time is actually working in jumps of 9 thousandths. To equal the .002" increments of the competition set you would need to be moving 1/36th of a turn at a time, and even at that you still have the spring of the press. I haven't seen a press yet that I couldn't watch the top move when sizing cases, so all your careful turning is pretty much kidding yourself. (Or myself, I did it that way for decades) Varying hardness of cases, different amounts of firings or even different amounts of lube on a case will give a different result every-time. Combine that with a few different rifles and reseting the same dies and getting consistent sizing is in the realm of an accident. Lord help you if you pick up a different shellholder between sessions.
The system is ridiculously simple and fool-proof; the best ideas usually are. I didn't think I needed them until a wildly experienced friend said "Hey Dawg, if you try those you'll never go back". No signs of back tracking yet.
Yes. They would have probably sold better with a different name. "Competition" sounds like something nobody needs but an OCD individual would take delight in. If they would have called it the "no brainer" or "EZ Hedspace" they'd fly off the shelves. Ironically, my competition and precision rigs are head-spaced properly to begin with and don't need magic tricks to set a die or to make cases last. Its the factory sporters with the sloppy chambers.
I just ordered 2 number sets for 308, 223, This is exactly what I was looking for!! My Springfield loaded will now be happy.
Thank-You DogLeg your help is invaluable....I have been a Machinest-Mechanic for around 45 years now and I over think everything.....Sometimes I think the less you have done in similar fields the better on the OCD brain...!!!
Rob NTC@@#
Thank-You DogLeg your help is invaluable....I have been a Machinest-Mechanic for around 45 years now and I over think everything.....Sometimes I think the less you have done in similar fields the better on the OCD brain...!!!
Rob NTC@@#
Something that doesn't seem to be mentioned here is when Neck Resizing ONLY is appropriate.
Most hunting rifle chambers don't really warrant the need. Same goes for Neck Turning.
I have two sets of reloads for the rifles I use regularly. Whether they be milsurps or commercial sporters. I only have one bench rest rifle left and that rifle needs to have the necks turned because the chamber tolerances are to tight. It needed to have a set of sizing dies made up from the same reamer to size the match grade cases down enough to feed into the chamber. This only needed to be done on the first loading. Now, a set of Wilson Neck Sizing dies are all that is needed.
OP, for your initial needs, I would stick with partial body resizing at the very most, along with partial neck resizing.
What you are trying to avoid, is shoulder set back and working the brass. The first time your fire the case, it will conform to the dimensions of your chamber. After it cools a bit, it should be a few thousandths of an inch smaller, all the way around. This is a good thing. If it didn't happen, you wouldn't be able to reuse the case.
Now, partial resizing is the cat's butt for bolt action rifles. If you are shooting an auto loader, pump or lever action, I would recommend that you full length resize, first time, every time. A bit of dirt or even build up in the chamber will cause issues, not might. Eventually and it won't take long, it will come back to bite you.
When I take my rifles to the range, to get the most accuracy I can out of them, I neck resize only. When I take my hunting rifles out I take the partially resized ammo with me. In all honesty, I can't see any noticeable difference in accuracy. I was a skeptic at first, about 20 years ago and was adamant about neck sizing only. A hold over from Bench Rest shooting.
The one real benefit to neck resizing is that your brass doesn't get worked as much and should last a lot longer. If you are like me, a cheap bugger, then it's time to experiment with annealing your brass for longevity.
As far as competition shell head holders. OK if you insist. I can see the theory behind it but your press will jam the butt of the case against the face of the shell head holder no matter what. Spring back??? That is just the tolerance built into the shell head holder rim slot. It's like backlash on a gear, when you reverse the direction there is a slack of a few thousandths of an inch. It is designed into the gear to reduce drag. As far as the cartridge case goes, it won't make any difference in sizing. It just means that the sizing die will release the case a hair later.
Once you have this clear, take some time and do some more investigation on powder burn rates and how they vary in pressure build ups with various weight bullets in your rifle. One powder, does not do it all.
Most hunting rifle chambers don't really warrant the need. Same goes for Neck Turning.
I have two sets of reloads for the rifles I use regularly. Whether they be milsurps or commercial sporters. I only have one bench rest rifle left and that rifle needs to have the necks turned because the chamber tolerances are to tight. It needed to have a set of sizing dies made up from the same reamer to size the match grade cases down enough to feed into the chamber. This only needed to be done on the first loading. Now, a set of Wilson Neck Sizing dies are all that is needed.
OP, for your initial needs, I would stick with partial body resizing at the very most, along with partial neck resizing.
What you are trying to avoid, is shoulder set back and working the brass. The first time your fire the case, it will conform to the dimensions of your chamber. After it cools a bit, it should be a few thousandths of an inch smaller, all the way around. This is a good thing. If it didn't happen, you wouldn't be able to reuse the case.
Now, partial resizing is the cat's butt for bolt action rifles. If you are shooting an auto loader, pump or lever action, I would recommend that you full length resize, first time, every time. A bit of dirt or even build up in the chamber will cause issues, not might. Eventually and it won't take long, it will come back to bite you.
When I take my rifles to the range, to get the most accuracy I can out of them, I neck resize only. When I take my hunting rifles out I take the partially resized ammo with me. In all honesty, I can't see any noticeable difference in accuracy. I was a skeptic at first, about 20 years ago and was adamant about neck sizing only. A hold over from Bench Rest shooting.
The one real benefit to neck resizing is that your brass doesn't get worked as much and should last a lot longer. If you are like me, a cheap bugger, then it's time to experiment with annealing your brass for longevity.
As far as competition shell head holders. OK if you insist. I can see the theory behind it but your press will jam the butt of the case against the face of the shell head holder no matter what. Spring back??? That is just the tolerance built into the shell head holder rim slot. It's like backlash on a gear, when you reverse the direction there is a slack of a few thousandths of an inch. It is designed into the gear to reduce drag. As far as the cartridge case goes, it won't make any difference in sizing. It just means that the sizing die will release the case a hair later.
Once you have this clear, take some time and do some more investigation on powder burn rates and how they vary in pressure build ups with various weight bullets in your rifle. One powder, does not do it all.
Scott Bear
Regular
- Location
- Prince George
I only neck size for my .308 and the accuracy is amazing. If you are using only one rifle why spend the time lubing cases when you can just neck size?
