BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
You should have just emailed me! I take it you're going with Doug?
Rifle for Alberta and Africa??
- Thread starter TikkaWSM
- Start date
Republic of Alberta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- ,location, location
Very impressive, congratulations on your success. I had to read back to even remember what we were discussing.
Here is my rebuttal; I'm not going to discuss deer sized game and the 338/340, but you seem to have a lot of examples of one or small sample size with elk and moose, plenty of animals but lots of bullets and lots of cartridges. And I am sure you know that with any given bullet weight, the 338 is more gun at 63-115 yards than the 340 is at 216.
The 340 is a very powerful rifle, but it is not some sort of death ray compared to the 338. The recoil may convince people otherwise, but an extra 11 to 127 fps (according to hodgon) or 49 fps according to nosler would indicate there is not much difference on game.
He's famous and hunts all over the world.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
To paraphrase...
"You smell that? Do you smell that? Envy, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of envy in the morning."
Boddington has done a lot of hunting, but my issues with his writing is not envy, as I have animals he does not have. He's just another self important 'merican who rubs me the wrong way. His experience is real and his opinion is well based, I just don't like his writings, as I don't like Elmer Keith's writings. A little too self important and some big assumptions based on experience. I, of course, have none of these flaws and my stories from my experience are much more believable, cause I'm Canadian and we all undersell ourselves as opposed to arrogant over selling as the likes of Boddington and Keith.
Besides the American/Canadian thing... There is one other glaring difference between CGN's Douglas and Boddington/Keith... Douglas doesn't have to peddle his exploits to put food in his babies bellies... Self promotion might be arrogance or it might just be survival... Which of course is an occupational hazard in the outdoor industry... They are afterall "salesmen."
I read many different rifle magazines and find them informative.(firearms, bullets, etc.----not the hunting stories) Of course some writings are mundane, however there is a lot of information I did pick up on. Most of the gun writers I concur with, being that they are old school as myself, Terry Wieland in particular. In the writings I always picked-up on arrogance, after all they are Americans and they would be the first to admit it......the same would apply with some Canadian gun/outdoor writers, however; they are not as informative.
I could not be envious of these writers who travel the world and hunt various animals, simply because I love pursuing animals in my own back yard.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
That's surprising. I find Boddington to be the exact opposite. He's one of the few outdoor writers who doesn't gloat or praise himself frequently.
His writing skill is also better than most, you should read his books sometime, you might be surprised.
You being Canadian just gives you an automatic inferiority complex toward Americans.
I have friends in South Africa and have been there twice but only hunted there on my last trip ( took a nice Impala). The most popular cals are 223, 308, 30-06 and 300 win mag. From what they tell me, I take it that when people show up to hunt with there big over kill magnums ( mostly the Americans) that they are the butt of many jokes. Unless you are after dangerous game then a 308 or 30-06 are best suited for the job
Show up with the bigger guns on a plains game hunt and someone might think something about it. Show up on dangerous game hunt with a brand new big rifle, and the same person will wonder why you didn't put some hunting miles on the rifle first. Methinks some of them never thought that through all the way.
Don't worry to much about what someone who doesn't even know you thinks. He doesn't know if you can shoot, but you do. He doesn't know if that shiny rifle is your first or your fiftieth. Most of them can't seem to comprehend that many of us swap rifles as casually as they change socks.
Douglas,
one day please do us a favor and wrote some stories. you dont need for sure on the money side but just to show our canadian fellow what can be done and i promise to tell some stories in English about CAR ....
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I don't know about small - perhaps my PERSONAL tally is small, but as I said, the number I've seen other people shoot, ie. friends and clients, I would conservatively estimate that in total, I've seen close to 100 elk killed over the years, and probably 70% of those were shot with some form of 300 magnum and the 338 Win. I honestly don't think either of them hit any harder - at least I could never see the difference on game. In that same time, probably saw 40-50 moose taken with the same cartidges, and again, no difference that I could see. I've been in on 30-or-so grizzly kills, again the majority with 300's and 338's, and I can tell you that you would be VERY hard pressed to actually SEE a difference between a 300 mag/200 partition and a 338/250 partition. And of the two, I'd actually take the 300/200 partition combo hands down, unless I knew I was going to be inside 30 yards, and even then a 300 mag/200 partition will do just fine.
It seems that you're looking for dozens of animals with each bullet weight offered for each cartridge - good luck finding that data.
What is YOUR experience when it comes to these kind of animals and calibers?
Actually, I'd say that the 340 at 216 is essentially the same gun at the 338 is at 63-115 yards. The comparison is pretty much exactly as a 300 magnum and a 30-06: a 300 mag at 100 is a 30-06 at the muzzle.
What is your actual experience in actually observing animals harvested in the field, vs. looking at ballistic tables in reloading manuals?
Weatherby data tends to be very conservative in many manuals due to reloading companies having no control over the actual chambering of rifles, and especially Weatherby cartridges being chambered without freebore, and thus put out loads that will be safe in a rifle that does not have a long leade or freebore.
Hogdon and Nosler are pretty conservative with the 338 and 340. You'd be far better off to look at Barnes, where the 340 beats the 338 by at least 200 fps for each bullet weight. Pretty much like a 300 magnum beats a 30-06. Perhaps you need to buy a few more reloading manuals? I eagerly await the day that Ramshot does some pressure testing on the 340. When they do, I think we'll see closer to 300 fps difference, much like their most recent data for the 300 win, IE. 180s at 3200 and 200's at 3000 - not too long ago those were 300 Wby velocities, and not always that easy to get even in that cartridge.
That is what I am saying, that there is no discernable difference on game. Yes you have taken a lot of animals, but 7 bull elk with the 340 and 4 different bullets is a small sample.
Barnes' top load is with RL22, with that powder Alliant says there is 128 fps between the 338 and the 340, not enough to argue about.
As to data being conservative, circa 1955, Weatherby was likely the only source of data and he says "OVER 55,000 PSI IS NOT CONSIDERED SAFE", that is from Weatherby when he was the source of rifles (with 3/4" freeborn used as much for long bullets), ammo, and data (pressure tested).
My last elk (a cow) was taken with the 32 Special, it worked just fine.
Barnes' top load is with RL22, with that powder Alliant says there is 128 fps between the 338 and the 340, not enough to argue about.
As to data being conservative, circa 1955, Weatherby was likely the only source of data and he says "OVER 55,000 PSI IS NOT CONSIDERED SAFE", that is from Weatherby when he was the source of rifles (with 3/4" freeborn used as much for long bullets), ammo, and data (pressure tested).
My last elk (a cow) was taken with the 32 Special, it worked just fine.
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