Now if we could just find something that could get the "fouling" out of Ottawa, we'd be set
Yeah well, the bore scope t'ain't gonna help with that.
Rifle Fouled bad.
- Thread starter 270BBR
- Start date
Yeah well, the bore scope t'ain't gonna help with that.
JB Bore Cleaning Paste has been used by Benchrest shooters successfully since the 60's that I know of. I have been using it since 1970. It does a great job of removing that carbon "ring" and any other fouling. It is non embedding and does not harm barrels what so ever. (It seems that myth still pops up)
I had a 303 that took me 3 years to clean. No chemical for any amount of time would remove the carbon. I would turn up some carbon with a bronze brush, take it to the range after I got sick of cleaning it, it wouldn't shoot straight, I'd put it away again. I thought the barrel was bent or something but as long as I was turning up carbon I wasnt sure, even though looking down the barrel the rifling looked strong and even all the way.finally I got some jb bore shine, not bore brite, and about 200 strokes with it cleaned it up and it shoots fine. I used a cloth patch over an undersize bronze brush and make sure the patch is tight and there is always fresh paste on it. I think you should use it straight without kroil or any lube. I have tried more chemicals than I can count on hard carbon none of them work, only mechanical action.
Sometimes good old elbow grease is what it takes. I did something similar (although less extensive) with a Martini .303 although when I finally got the grunge out it turned out the bore really was pooched.
As regards using a patch over a smaller brush, I use a nylon brush for this and find it does a good job for regular cleaning and it doesn't chew up the patch.
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bad idea to use unless well neutralized and well oiled after. Ammonia tends to embrittle metals and speed oxidation like crazy.
I was cleaning a bbl the other day with wipeout which was working good. then tried some Kleen-flo combustion chamber cleaner and seemed to get quite a bit more carbon coming out on the patches. just squirted it into the chamber with the barrel muzzle down til it started to run out, then let it soak horizontal for an hour or so. Checked bore with teslong scope. worked very well.
Wipe-out works well for me. I think I got mine from Henry at Budget.
I have also used M-Pro 7 copper remover. It seems to remove powder fouling very well, I'm not convinced at it's copper removing properties yet. I usually let it sit for a good long time. Brush, then patch out. Usually easier to find than some of the other products.
KG-12 is another product I use occasionally.
I have also used M-Pro 7 copper remover. It seems to remove powder fouling very well, I'm not convinced at it's copper removing properties yet. I usually let it sit for a good long time. Brush, then patch out. Usually easier to find than some of the other products.
KG-12 is another product I use occasionally.
Here is an update. Cleaning this rifle opened my eyes to what may poor cleaning practise in the past by other and me. Cleaning this rifle took time and elbow grease but here is what I did in the end;
I was having trouble getting soot/carbon out of this rifle. Like a engine cylinder head or the top of a piston you need to scrape the carbon off. I start in the morning, I ran two tight fitting Kroil soaked patches through the rife, then a bronze brush soaked in Kroil 10 strokes but with a 30 caliber brush (this is a 270 win rifle), then two lose fitting patch soaked in Kroil, hoping that the brush opened a hole for the Kriol to get under the carbon. Then at night I would repeat this. I did use J-B a couple of times as well, after 10 days the rifle came clean. I'm sensitive to Kroil so I did this on the truck tailgate which is easier on me. I'm going to check my other rifles and see if they need to have the same treatment.
Thanks for everyones help.
I was having trouble getting soot/carbon out of this rifle. Like a engine cylinder head or the top of a piston you need to scrape the carbon off. I start in the morning, I ran two tight fitting Kroil soaked patches through the rife, then a bronze brush soaked in Kroil 10 strokes but with a 30 caliber brush (this is a 270 win rifle), then two lose fitting patch soaked in Kroil, hoping that the brush opened a hole for the Kriol to get under the carbon. Then at night I would repeat this. I did use J-B a couple of times as well, after 10 days the rifle came clean. I'm sensitive to Kroil so I did this on the truck tailgate which is easier on me. I'm going to check my other rifles and see if they need to have the same treatment.
Thanks for everyones help.
Back in the day (mid '80's), for cleaning benchrest rifles, we used KLEENZ, GM's upper cylinder cleaner, as it was useful in dissolving & flushing copper & carbon deposits. It was made by Guardsman Chemical & had the same MSDS sheet as the old Shooter's Choice. Precision Shooting even ran an article about it, much to Marksman's Choice (the owner of Shooter's Choice at the time) chagrin. The only thing we added was 2 tablespoons of red ATF (to stop the infernal SCREETCH of the brush down the bore) & 2 tbsp. of Sweet's (to give it some speedy-up in the copper dissoling department, given the between-match time constraints).
While I now use Wipe-out spray foam, Patch Out & their Accelerator, I have used Mercury Quicksilver QuickClean 2 stroke engine cleaner, when at the cottage after running out of Wipe-out. It is manufactured specifically to remove carbon & copper from a 2 stroke engine's combustion chamber (2 stroke engines used to use, maybe still do copper reed valves). The MSDS for it reads quite similar to the old Guardsman Chemical formulation.
I've also experienced the same thing as the OP, typically when trying to clean old Lee Enfields or European Mausers. After going through the same time-after-time-after-time scenario, eventually, I just said to heck with it, dried the bore & took it to the range. After getting back home & spraying all of the bores firstly with brake cleaner (the good stuff for outdoors use), then after it dries in less than the time it takes to bring it back inside, I run a patch with Accelerator, then spray it with Wipe-Out foaming bore cleaner & like others have said, let it soak for 24 hours, dry patch, then repeat. I've noticed, with happy surprise, that once all of the blue or green (think European tombac-jacketed bullets) is gone, the bore is bright & shiny & there's no more of the black "soot" sitting in the grooves. I think it has something to do with getting the barrel warm from firing, then cleaning again.
I've also tried running a few patches soaked in Kroil in a new-to-me barrel that I'm trying to get clean. Just because I bought a gallon of it & need to use it up in this century.
While powder fouling is black & carbon fouling is brown, perhaps as some have suggested, somebody thought that moly coating, both the bore & the bullets, was the answer to all of their problems. And, as more have said, cleaning moly from a moly-fouled barrel can be a bugger!
Or, it may just be that the PO didn't know squat about cleaning a bore, but followed the old wife's tale about using Hoppe's #9 as bore cleaner. It hasn't been able to clean anything other than loose carbon out of a barrel since they took all of the good stuff out of it years and years ago. And since they no longer use sperm whale oil in it, it doesn't even qualify as good cologne.
While I now use Wipe-out spray foam, Patch Out & their Accelerator, I have used Mercury Quicksilver QuickClean 2 stroke engine cleaner, when at the cottage after running out of Wipe-out. It is manufactured specifically to remove carbon & copper from a 2 stroke engine's combustion chamber (2 stroke engines used to use, maybe still do copper reed valves). The MSDS for it reads quite similar to the old Guardsman Chemical formulation.
I've also experienced the same thing as the OP, typically when trying to clean old Lee Enfields or European Mausers. After going through the same time-after-time-after-time scenario, eventually, I just said to heck with it, dried the bore & took it to the range. After getting back home & spraying all of the bores firstly with brake cleaner (the good stuff for outdoors use), then after it dries in less than the time it takes to bring it back inside, I run a patch with Accelerator, then spray it with Wipe-Out foaming bore cleaner & like others have said, let it soak for 24 hours, dry patch, then repeat. I've noticed, with happy surprise, that once all of the blue or green (think European tombac-jacketed bullets) is gone, the bore is bright & shiny & there's no more of the black "soot" sitting in the grooves. I think it has something to do with getting the barrel warm from firing, then cleaning again.
I've also tried running a few patches soaked in Kroil in a new-to-me barrel that I'm trying to get clean. Just because I bought a gallon of it & need to use it up in this century.
While powder fouling is black & carbon fouling is brown, perhaps as some have suggested, somebody thought that moly coating, both the bore & the bullets, was the answer to all of their problems. And, as more have said, cleaning moly from a moly-fouled barrel can be a bugger!
Or, it may just be that the PO didn't know squat about cleaning a bore, but followed the old wife's tale about using Hoppe's #9 as bore cleaner. It hasn't been able to clean anything other than loose carbon out of a barrel since they took all of the good stuff out of it years and years ago. And since they no longer use sperm whale oil in it, it doesn't even qualify as good cologne.
