rifle matches AR vs. VZ58

J

johhny12gauge

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Okay so I am talking to a few friends about getting into rifle matches, I know next to nothing about the competition side of firearms involving rifles and shotguns. So I've had about 4 ARs and am thinking of using a 7.62x39 VZ-58 for 3 gun shoots and rifle matches. I just wanted people's opinions who know more than me about competing. What are the Pros and Cons of each (VZ-58 & AR)?
Thanks
 
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As with most things it depends on the skills of the OPERATOR. Both are fine firearms. Using AR 10 rounders won't guarantee anything unless you practice, and get to know your system.
 
If you are shooting cheap ammo out of both the carbines are pretty much the same level of accuracy. If you spring for premium ammo the AR platform is more accurate.

The AR is easier to sit an optic on, the vz requires some modifications.

Mag changes for an AR are somewhat easier, you can press the button for the mag release while reaching for the fresh mag it should drop free.

the vz requires you to rock the mag out, tying up your hand for an extra few hundredths of a second.

Also as stated 10 round lar mags vs 5 round cz.

That all being said a great sks shooter will beat a good AR shooter every day of the week and twice on Sunday. It is the nut behind the gun that makes the real difference.
 
JBD said:
That all being said a great sks shooter will beat a good AR shooter every day of the week and twice on Sunday. It is the nut behind the gun that makes the real difference.
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Everybody says that, but to be perfectly honest, I have never seen a great shooter, or even a decent shooter using an 858 (or SKS for that matter).

A lot of clubs allow you to shoot whatever you've got with you, which is great, but if you're looking to be competitive, you should be running an AR, or at least something that takes AR magazines.

Look at any 3 gun match (large or small), 90+% of the rifles are ARs...there's a reason for that.


Also, it looks like you're motivated by saving money on ammo, that 7.62x39 stuff is often steel core, which won't be allowed at a lot of clubs
 
Okay I had an idea to rock a VZ to be different but looks like the AR it will be. How would using a 10 round short mag be an advantage? Basically, half the mag changes so as to save time?
 
There's nothing wrong with wanting to run something different....as long as you're not concerned with being competitive.
(I think I'll post that same comment in the 6" Open gun thread too)
 
Shooting competitively in Canada an AR with 10round mags is the way to go.

I have shot in a number of multigun/3gun matches and the superiority of the AR/LAR mag system is pretty obvious.

I have seen lots of guys shoot with 5/30 neutered mags but they are not competitive with the upper level shooters.

Same with the SKS and VZ - the 5round limit is just too much of a limiting factor.

Nothing wrong with shooting any other platform. I put on a match a while back and the 2nd place shooter was using a Lee Enfield. He was very good with the rifle and the round counts were not high on the rifle stages or rifle sections of the multigun stages. But as soon as the round counts rise or the stage layout gives an advantage to extra mag changes the AR with LAR mags rule.

John
 
Onagoth said:
Everybody says that, but to be perfectly honest, I have never seen a great shooter, or even a decent shooter using an 858 (or SKS for that matter).

A lot of clubs allow you to shoot whatever you've got with you, which is great, but if you're looking to be competitive, you should be running an AR, or at least something that takes AR magazines.

Look at any 3 gun match (large or small), 90+% of the rifles are ARs...there's a reason for that.


Also, it looks like you're motivated by saving money on ammo, that 7.62x39 stuff is often steel core, which won't be allowed at a lot of clubs
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Excellent Post; Well said, Onagoth.
 
If you spend enough time on both platforms you will be able to rock either one.
Last year at CDTSA we had some prefect shoots and near prefect shoots with the AR platform, but then again we had several CZ / VZ shooters with custom reloads just come right under them.

What would i run in a comp that counted? Ar for sure, quicker reload on the mag, more cap on the rounds.
What do i run most of the time for fun? CZ / VZ
 
Okay well the AR platform it will be. I plan to run a 14.5" Norinco, my 10.5" Norinco I wouldn't trust as much. Now my last questions...
Get LAR mags with the metal coupler and flip them when doing mags changes (I'm used to 5/30 pmags)?

Thanks
 
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Further to the discussion, the shooting discipline does make a difference. Magazine changes may be mandatory; this makes LARs less desirable. The 5/30 is a dandy prone support.
Generally speaking, an AR has superior ergonomics.
 
still I prefer my garand even after trying my ar's and vz..... I've had nothing but issues with my 10 rounders for my ars ( the noly one that seems to actually tolerated them is my 7 incher all my others choke up)and have seen many guys actually throw them in the garbage after repeated jams, misfeeds and double feeds.. Tried a few matches with my vz only to go back to what works....everytime and always.... the garand...
 
the guy spending the money on ammo match fees, hotels and restaurants the price of the guns are pretty incidental. You will see very few sks in competition as they have all the drawbacks that I stated for the vz and then some. I used one as that is what I had at the time, got all my hits had no failures I edged out many ar m forgery as I can engage a target and score an a zone hit at the limits of the carbine. An equal shooter would edge me out as the ergomics suck, and a better one well forget about it.

My point is that someone with basic kit can have fun and actually do well with it.

Now the best are coming to the restigouche range in 2013 for the canadian nationals. I am going to run a vz 858 in 7.62 x 39, it will probably have a bt mag adapter and 10 round mags. For those who truly have the courage of their convictions I am willing to bet the 40 cans for 40 bucks packs of beer (vive la quebec) that I will not come in dead last on the rifle stages.

:)
 
JBD said:
the guy spending the money on ammo match fees, hotels and restaurants the price of the guns are pretty incidental. You will see very few sks in competition as they have all the drawbacks that I stated for the vz and then some. I used one as that is what I had at the time, got all my hits had no failures I edged out many ar m forgery as I can engage a target and score an a zone hit at the limits of the carbine. An equal shooter would edge me out as the ergomics suck, and a better one well forget about it.

My point is that someone with basic kit can have fun and actually do well with it.

Now the best are coming to the restigouche range in 2013 for the canadian nationals. I am going to run a vz 858 in 7.62 x 39, it will probably have a bt mag adapter and 10 round mags. For those who truly have the courage of their convictions I am willing to bet the 40 cans for 40 bucks packs of beer (vive la quebec) that I will not come in dead last on the rifle stages.

:)
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i was going to mention the bt adaptors for 7.62x39 (or 5.56) on the vz and csa guns, makes you equal with the 10 round mag of the AR
 
All things being equal (the shooter and general set up of the gun) the AR is going to generally ass-stomp a VZ from 50m+ distance. Anything inside that is a wash.
 
John in B.C. said:
Shooting competitively in Canada an AR with 10round mags is the way to go.
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Well hang on a minute there....

Sure a guy with 5 rounds mags can't out shoot the ARist, but... a decent match will divide shooters into divisions were at least equipment wise shooters are on an ever(er) playing field.

For the Team Hoser multigun shoots w're coming up with divisions such as
"Tactical 30" This div. requires .30cal. rifles so really in Canada... by default everyone will in it will be stuck with a 5 round mag.
I can't think of a semiauto .30 that can have mags over 5 rounds...
Yeah...yeah...yeah... "What about the Garand with it's 8 round enblock?"

Well... suffice it to say... I've NEVER seen anyone come out to a shoot with a Garand. If someone does... Oh well, deal with it.
 
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