Rifle: One Size Fits All?

You might be right. Deer, Moose & Elk are all relatively available where I am, and wouldnt require any special travel necessarily to bag one. The reason im thinking a lower caliber to start is because I want something that can go the distance for fun precision shooting, isnt overly expensive, and wont destroy my shoulder after only a few rounds. Sounds like a .300WM might just do that, which is fine, just not for right now.

Also, I LOVE the Tikka rifles since i started looking at them. IM thinking instead of the Lite model, go with the Hunter model, I can still get all the pretty aesthetics I want with the heavier gun.
 
APF1985 said:
You might be right. Deer, Moose & Elk are all relatively available where I am, and wouldnt require any special travel necessarily to bag one. The reason im thinking a lower caliber to start is because I want something that can go the distance for fun precision shooting, isnt overly expensive, and wont destroy my shoulder after only a few rounds. Sounds like a .300WM might just do that, which is fine, just not for right now.

Also, I LOVE the Tikka rifles since i started looking at them. IM thinking instead of the Lite model, go with the Hunter model, I can still get all the pretty aesthetics I want with the heavier gun.
Click to expand...

300 WM is a fine cartridge and a good choice for what you are intending, I would suggest not discounting the 7 Rem Mag though....with bullet choices these days it would be a fine choice as well. I like my Tikka 300 WSM but if I was doing it over again I would seriously considered changing my choice to a Winchester or maybe even a Browning. The Tikka is good don't get me wrong but if you handload , it really limits what you can do because of the magazine and long throat. I basically have to seat to mag length and move on.
 
Another thing to consider is ammo cost and selection. Go to your local store and see what they carry and how much it costs. You'll find more 3006 and 308 around, and for significantly cheaper then 300WM. I would not recommend a 300WM to a new shooter. They can be quite unpleasent to shoot if proper form isnt used. Also, shooting targets off a bench, you will feel more recoil then in a hunting situation. You may find you are done shooting ina hurry.
 
given the choice of one rifle it would be 7 mag or one of the 300 mags. for many years when i was young a broke i hunted every thing with a ruger m77 in 300wm. it works on deer to large moose and bears. 7 and 300 ammo is avalable almost any where.
 
I am a "one rifle kinda guy", and for the past 25 plus years, still go out with my trusty old .338 Win Mag. Flawless on deer, elk, moose, buffalo and anything in between. Surprisingly, minimal meat damage. Always used Federal Premiums 210 NP. I do agree it may be a tad too much for a novice. But a few days at the range can fix that up.
 
708 would be a good choice to start out with and you can hunt anything in North America with it. And later you can move up to a 7 m RemMag if you want to reach out and touch something a little farther out.
 
steve62 said:
708 would be a good choice to start out with and you can hunt anything in North America with it. And later you can move up to a 7 m RemMag if you want to reach out and touch something a little farther out.
Click to expand...

I really wish people would stop... No, no it's not "good for anything in North America". This is a catch phrase I hear repeated at length about a bunch of marginal cartridges (.270, .260, .308 all come to mind). It is too light for Bison, too light for big bears. Can it kill them? Sure. But it's worse than taking a .243 Elk hunting in the Bison scenario. "Good for anything in North America" should responsibly mean .300 Win Mag.

As for 7mm-08, check the ballistics, a .308 shoots flatter at all hunting ranges for any matched bullet weight due to greater efficiency (larger bullet base for pressure to act on). I've posted the numbers to many folks surprise a couple times, and recoil is identical (would take a scientist to note a difference) so I wouldn't recommend anyone puts themselves in such a predicament in finding ammunition. It was introduced to sell rifles, and it does, with zero actual benefits over the boring .308. ;)
 
You can buy Winchester grey box ammo at my local Coop for $17 on sale in 270, 30-06 and 308 once a year. Therefore as a relativly new shooter you can spend a little and shoot a lot. If you buy a 7mm-08 and don't reload you are stuck with $30/box 140gr rounds. I`m not going to recomend a calibre, but rather say that in my opinion you`d be best off buying something more common with cheaper and more available ammo. 270(little small for elk IMO),30-06, 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag all fit the bill and later if you decide to hand load you can pick up range brass and make some cheap plinking rounds for about $12 to $14 a box.

Now to properly answer your question
1. I had originally bought a 270 win as a "One rifle for everything", but where I hunt elk shots are usually over 200 yards and I felt that it was too small so I got myself a 338 Win Mag and Use it for moose as well. If I had bought a 30-06/300 WM or 7mm RM I may have just stuck with it.

2. I prefer having different rifles for different game. I do not wish to go back to one rifle. I like shooting quite a bit and like the variety. I have a 223 rem for coyotes 270 win for deer/maybe moose and a 338 WM for elk/moose and bison(in my dreams)

Lastly. Before you let anyone tell you what rifle has too much recoil. If possible go to the range with someone and try a few rounds out of as many guns as possible. I let my buddy shoot my 338 WM and much to my surprise he did not find it too bad. He had never shot a center fire rifle before that day. He wanted just one rifle and settled on a 7mm RM. I think he made a good chioce.

George
 
Last edited:
I have a little story for this topic. Not fully relevant, but close enough.
The butcher in town uses a 45-70 to put down the animals that he butchers. At least the big ones. One day, he came over to shoot one of our steers. He loaded to rounds in to the gun, and I hearded the steer over to where he could get a clean shot with minimal background interference. Steer looks at him... BANG!!!! Head shot!!! down the steer goes, and within a few seconds, up the steer gets... He's clearly dead, as his eyes are bulging out of their sockets, he's bleeding like crazy from his nose and mouth, and his head is hanging at a funny angle from the neck. The steer starts waking backwards in a big circle. BANG!!! Another head shot, and down the steer goes again... And the steer gets back up, and starts walking, or stumbling in a large clockwise circle backwards again. Out comes the .22mag, and 2 more shots into the side of the neck, and the steer went down to stay.
Both shots from the big gun were between the eyes and 1.5 inches higher than the eye line. The first shot had broken the steers neck, and severed the spinal cord. the second shot went in slightly different path. From the meat, the steer had to have been dead from the first shot. It was extremely tender.

On a different note, I remember as a kid being shown how to hunt deer. Grandpa dropped 2 of them that were destroying the trees in the yard with a 22lr...
 
Ardent said:
I really wish people would stop... No, no it's not "good for anything in North America". This is a catch phrase I hear repeated at length about a bunch of marginal cartridges (.270, .260, .308 all come to mind). It is too light for Bison, too light for big bears. Can it kill them? Sure. But it's worse than taking a .243 Elk hunting in the Bison scenario. "Good for anything in North America" should responsibly mean .300 Win Mag.
As for 7mm-08, check the ballistics, a .308 shoots flatter at all hunting ranges for any matched bullet weight due to greater efficiency (larger bullet base for pressure to act on). I've posted the numbers to many folks surprise a couple times, and recoil is identical (would take a scientist to note a difference) so I wouldn't recommend anyone puts themselves in such a predicament in finding ammunition. It was introduced to sell rifles, and it does, with zero actual benefits over the boring .308. ;)
Click to expand...

How come a .300WM is good for anything in N.A. but a .30-06 isn't? The .300WM is shooting the same .308cal bullets, as a .30-06, just at higher velocities. Load a .30-06 with 200gr Nosler Partitions and you can take anything in N.A.

I don't get this, "the .30-06 isn't good enough, but the .300Mag is..." stuff.

To me, what you're really saying is, you got to step up to a medium caliber bullet. Which is .323, .338, .358 etc...

As to the all-around cartridge for N.A., IMHGO it is the .338WM, which I carry 90% of the time. When I'm not carrying the .338, it's because I've got the 9.3x62, .35Whelen, 8x57, .405Win etc...

FWIW, I carry either the .30-06 or the .300H&H, for deer hunting.
 
Bullet weight with speed, a .300 will move 200grs+ with significantly more authority. If it was only a matter of a .308" bullet a .30-30 would be good as a .30-06 too. :)

I agree with you that .338 could be considered the perfect North American all rounder, and I just bought one even though I'm trying to trim chamberings in the safe. For a baseline however I feel comfortable with my assertion .300 Win Mag marks a proper "good for anything in North America", and also agree .338 Win Mag leaves one wanting for nothing on this continent.

.30-06, and I've seen it on Bison first hand, is very, very marginal in my opinion. A guy would see a difference going to .300 Mag. In fairness, the .30-06 good for North America statement holds water in that it is capable continent wide, just certainly not ideal at the heavy end of the game spectrum. This said, not many hunt Bison every couple years.

A friend owns a Bison ranch and has shot them for personal use with everything from .25's to .45 rifles, and I almost wish he could post here. Even domestic animals demonstrate unbelievable tenacity and toughness, one nearly killed him when he thought a lighter chambering would work- it didn't.
 
compairing the 30 06 to the 300 winmag with factory ammo isn't close. handloaded 30 06 will close the gap. if your buying cheap ammo off the shelf stick with the 300wm its slow enough. i cronyed win silver box 180 grn 300 ammo a few months ago. 24 inch barrel and it was 2890 to 2940 fps. pretty close to my 30 06 with handloads just over 2835with a 22 inch barrel. win silver box 180 30 06 could barely reach high 2600 to 2700. i don't see factory 30 06 as a power house the win mag is slow enough. and yes there is high enery loads avalable at rediculus prices. in these two rounds handloading makes all the difference as it brings the 30 06 to its full potencial.
 
Ardent said:
Bullet weight with speed, a .300 will move 200grs+ with significantly more authority. If it was only a matter of a .308" bullet a .30-30 would be good as a .30-06 too. :)

I agree with you that .338 could be considered the perfect North American all rounder, and I just bought one even though I'm trying to trim chamberings in the safe. For a baseline however I feel comfortable with my assertion .300 Win Mag marks a proper "good for anything in North America", and also agree .338 Win Mag leaves one wanting for nothing on this continent.

.30-06, and I've seen it on Bison first hand, is very, very marginal in my opinion. A guy would see a difference going to .300 Mag. In fairness, the .30-06 good for North America statement holds water in that it is capable continent wide, just certainly not ideal at the heavy end of the game spectrum. This said, not many hunt Bison every couple years.

A friend owns a Bison ranch and has shot them for personal use with everything from .25's to .45 rifles, and I almost wish he could post here. Even domestic animals demonstrate unbelievable tenacity and toughness, one nearly killed him when he thought a lighter chambering would work- it didn't.
Click to expand...


I believe everything you're saying except this: read back through the endless threads on .300 mags, and check what all the guys have to say about bullet weights they use. Almost all of them say 165 to 180gr.
If guys used the 200's then I'd agree. But very few bother to, which to me negates the real advatage of the various .300 mags.

FWIW, I have a .300Obsolete, and use 200gr Accubonds.
 
I routinely get 4 to 500 fps more out of my .300s than my 30-06s. Believe me, if I could safely load an '06 up to the speeds people claim and some get I'd be doing it. Just the other day I stoked an '06 up with enough H4350 to leave ejector marks on the case heads, and have a sticky bolt lift and then backed off 1 grain so I didn't have look at it. Chronograph showed 2650 fps. I tried pulling the trigger harder and pushing on the buttpad, but that CED was not changing its mind. Same day, and couple of 26" .300 Wins with a load of H1000 that isn't maximum in any book I've ever seen produces 3150, regular as clock-work. Same load and a .300 that has been set back and rechambered so it is only 23 1/2" long still strolls along at 3050. RL22 will equal the speeds easily, and I've topped it considerably.
 
I really wish people would stop... No, no it's not "good for anything in North America". This is a catch phrase I hear repeated at length about a bunch of marginal cartridges (.270, .260, .308 all come to mind).
Click to expand...

Normally when people make this statement about how they would do it, its closely followed by "If you're paying for it". That offer is never on the table. I'd use a flintlock if someone else was paying for it.

I've worked out a cost benefit analysis on a .300 versus 30-06 using my own loads. It costs me 6 1/2 cents to go 4-500 fps faster. I'll take that deal anytime, but its not a bargain if the shooter can't handle the recoil and isn't going to put in the time to get used to it.
 
My 300 Winchester magnum has killed deer, elk, moose and black bear.

My 270 deer and moose and I'd use it on elk and black bear too now seeing as it is shooting the best of my rifles.

I'd use my 7x57 on all of the above too if I happened to see a legal moose or elk while hunting deer or bear.
 
This thread is of great interest for me as well as I will soon be purchasing my first hunting rifle.

I have received lots of opinions of course, everyone seems to have one, and it never hurts to get more input.

First, my uses, similar to OP, I plan (or want the ability) to hunt deer, moose, black bear, and possibly take a stab at goat and elk (I for sure want Elk, but it's a bit of a trip to get to their location). I have no plans to hunt Bison, and I am not ready to try for grizzly. I would like to go for caribou but I imagine it will be a couple years before I can get that far north.

I don't consider myself to be especially recoil adverse, but at the same time I do not have lots of high-recoil experience. I'd like to get there, but I don't want to develop a flinch along the way. I have shot hundreds of rounds of 2 3/4" No.8 while shooting at Clays and I can (and have) done it for hours on end. I also have experience shooting an SKS, but a modded one that seems quite a bit heavier than stock. Additionally I have experience with 5.56mm through a C7. I'm not so worried about shoulder pain, I'm rather durable that way, but rather I don't want to develop bad habits due to "high" recoil before I get used to it.

I had been looking at .308 Win, not entirely sure why I was initially drawn to it but I guess it seemed to have a reputation as being an improved .30-06. It also seems to be the chambering found in most law enforcement precision rifles, which has possible utility to me (in terms of becoming familiar with the calibre).

Most of the older hunters around here strongly recommend a .30-06, the most common arguments seems to be the slightly better performance at the heavier bullet sizes or the ease of finding ammunition anywhere I might go.

The other piece of advice I have gotten was to go for a .300 WinMag. If I want the heavier bullets, it will out perform the '06 for velocity at the same weight but I'm told it can also be loaded with smaller bullets to keep the mid-sized game capabilities. I was a bit concerned about the recoil as I've heard it can be significantly over the .308/30-06, but I've never shot one so I can't speak to first hand experience. Not to mention, given my uses (see above) it might be more gun that I need right now. The argument against the added recoil was basically for me to "man-up", which I can certainly respect to an extent, but at the same time there is no point in buying a bigger rifle "just because".

I should say I haven't nailed down my choice of rifle and I'm not adverse to going a bit heavier to help with recoil and accuracy (especially if I go for a medium contour barrel). I saw an x-bolt varmint in .308 that really caught my eye because it fit those parameters.

Thanks in advance for reading and for the help. If the mods feel this derails things too much from the original question (all around rifle) then let me know and I'll copy it into a new topic and we can delete this.
 
Post fits in just great here, the .308 would suit your purposes great. .30-06 is the same flavour just more versatile, if either was an improved version of the other ignoring design dates the .30-06 would be the better from a hunter's perspective.

I have to agree with Dogleg's initial suggestion of a .30-06 being a perfect first big game rifle as I reflect here. .300 Mag has moderate recoil once you're comfortable in the magnums, but it does bark more than a .30-06 or .308. You also won't have any trouble dropping Elk with a .30-06, and it shoots flat enough for the mountains.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom