Rifle: One Size Fits All?

I routinely get 4 to 500 fps more out of my .300s than my 30-06s. Believe me, if I could safely load an '06 up to the speeds people claim and some get I'd be doing it. Just the other day I stoked an '06 up with enough H4350 to leave ejector marks on the case heads, and have a sticky bolt lift and then backed off 1 grain so I didn't have look at it. Chronograph showed 2650 fps. I tried pulling the trigger harder and pushing on the buttpad, but that CED was not changing its mind. Same day, and couple of 26" .300 Wins with a load of H1000 that isn't maximum in any book I've ever seen produces 3150, regular as clock-work. Same load and a .300 that has been set back and rechambered so it is only 23 1/2" long still strolls along at 3050. RL22 will equal the speeds easily, and I've topped it considerably.

I'm kind of surprised with your experience here Dogleg.

Using mag primers, RL-17, and 180 grain Win PP's (same ingredients in both the 30-06 and 300 win mag), I get 2880 fps from 22" 30-06, and 3165 fps from 24" 300 win mag. So that's basically 300 fps difference. 500 fps seems a way awful lot to me.
 
I not saying I'm thrilled about it, I'm just saying that's what I get. And considering the amount of 30-06s I have, and the amount of powders I've tried there must be a lot of other people with similar results. One of these days I'll clock the Superformance loads I worked up this winter, but they won't be any good for my 30-06 use anyway.
 
compairing the 30 06 to the 300 winmag with factory ammo isn't close. handloaded 30 06 will close the gap. if your buying cheap ammo off the shelf stick with the 300wm its slow enough. i cronyed win silver box 180 grn 300 ammo a few months ago. 24 inch barrel and it was 2890 to 2940 fps. pretty close to my 30 06 with handloads just over 2835with a 22 inch barrel. win silver box 180 30 06 could barely reach high 2600 to 2700. i don't see factory 30 06 as a power house the win mag is slow enough. and yes there is high enery loads avalable at rediculus prices. in these two rounds handloading makes all the difference as it brings the 30 06 to its full potencial.

I dislike when people make the argument, well if you handload you can push the heels of the .300 WM. Ya of course if you use factory .300 WM, but if you handload ought-six you will also be handloading .300 WM, so the gap opens up again. Either compare factory loads to factory loads or hot handloads to hot handloads. Either way the .300 WM is several hundred FPS faster.
 
So we have kind of drilled on caliber choices, think we could maybe refocus onto rifles?

Decent all around rifle types/brands? (In .308/30-06/300 WM). I would think a bolt action would be at the top of the list here, but maybe there are other opinions?

Equally undiscussed was optics for said all-around rifle. My thoughts here is something like a 3 - 8 variable power, with a decent aperture size. Quality being as high as one can reasonably afford. Your thoughts?
 
I have a tikka t3 hunter in 300 wsm. At first I just shot it with the factory pad that comes with it. Man that thing punished me, after a box of factory shells I had enough of that for the day. I have shot alot of smaller calibers but it was my first magnum. Put a aftermarket recoil pad on it and now it's a dream to use. I topped it with a Zeiss 4.5x14x50mm glass and haven't used another rifle for hunting since. I suggest a recoil pad and half decent glass that can handle that magnum recoil. Oh ya and practice practice practice... Then a guy gets used to it and its capabilities.
Cheers
Geoff
 
IMHO, if it can be reasonably done with a .30 caliber bullet, a .30/06 can do it, when you need more, bigger is better than faster. Faster is great when the thing you want to shoot lies beyond 500 yards, but out to a quarter mile or so, the '06 does pretty well if you can shoot. If you can't shoot, it doesn't really matter what lies in the chamber of your rifle. If I was going to hunt bison with my '06, I'd load it with 240 gr Woodleighs, which is also the bullet I choose for the '06 when I carry a light rifle for bear work.

If the opportunity for bison came my way, chances are I'd select either my .375 or my.458, as I am not a minimalist when it comes to cartridge selection, but the flip side of the coin is how much recoil and blast can you tolerate, and from which positions can you tolerate it? If all you can do is shoot your rifle off hand, then IMHOI, its too much gun for you. A hunter should be able to shoot his general purpose big game rifle competently from all field positions, including prone. A hunter doesn't have to shoot a string of 20 rounds from prone, but he should be able to tolerate 3. If he can't do that, he has too much gun, except when niche rifles are used for elephant or African buffalo hunting in long grass where the action is fast and the range exceedingly short. I believe the correct answer is to hunt with the most powerful rifle you can shoot well, and that you should develop basic competence with that rifle prior to going afield. When attention is paid the the fit of the rifle to the shooter, the choice of a suitable recoil pad, the correct choice of optics and mounting, shooting well in the field is easier.

Some jurisdictions have minimum caliber or minimum energy requirements for some species of game. Many, if not most African countries, demand a minimum of a .375 for buffalo, but will accept a 9.3X62. The Yukon requires a minimum energy of 2800 fp at the muzzle in order to be legal for bison, and this is based on the .30/06 180 gr factory load which the Yukon Government uses as a baseline. I doubt if the bison is killed at the muzzle, but trying to establish an energy figure at the target would prove too convoluted to be understandable in regulations. By increasing the bullet weight from 180 to 220 or 240 grs, that baseline is easily exceeded with the same .30/06 rifle.



As for a rifle recommendation, a Ruger 77 Hawkeye might be the best bang for the buck at this time, although I detest what they did to the Ruger Alaskan. If you can afford a Cooper or Dakota, or for that matter a Kimber in one of the fine wood models they offer, let personal preference rule. I have a soft spot for old Brnos myself.
 
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Brno or CZ. I love the feel for them. Not a fan of remingtons, savages, stevens, etc. If I were you, I'd find buddies with a bunch of different rifles, and buy ammo for them and shoot them a bit. different calibers as well. Then you can determine what caliber and cartrige you like, and what kind of gun fits you. It's a lot cheaper than buying a gun new, and taking the 20-25% hit on the price if you decide you don't like it to sell it on the EE.
 
The older I get, the more I say 'to hell with this recoil nonsense'! I shoot a .308 - but I also live within that cartridge's abilities. I stoke the ever-luvin chit out of it for hunting loads (chronographed, pushed up till pressure signs appear, then back off 1/2 grain) - and that thing will dump anything I need to shoot at out to 150 yards. Also, I am a very good shot. I practice shooting from positions and improvised rests. I will also turn my nose up at marginal shots. I use a proper military GI sling and anything I shoot at goes down with one shot - sometimes a second shot is required as an act of mercy on especially tough critters - but that is only a formality for animals that are down but still alive.

Last year I was shocked when I potted an antlerless moose. The shot was perfect (only 120 yards), right through the heart - and that thing still made it about 200 yards across the meadow. It looked like somebody had been slopping about with gallons of red paint on the snow afterward. I don't take that as a cut against Mthe .308, I have seen others do the same thing with the big magnums too.

My scholarly advice is to not get hung up on exotic equipment or specialized proprietary calibers. To start, a standard cartridge (.308, 30-06, .270, etc etc) is the best way to go. Get a good scope and a reloader. Don't get hung up on the bench and sandbags either - practice shooting from crappy positions. Play with the rifle and shoot as much as you can. Scout around! Burn fuel and put on miles. Once you have mastered the basics, you might want to start playing with other guns and calibers as funds permit.

And always remember that this is a GAME. Some blowhards will try to set themselves up as authorities on the subject and pose as elitists of the sport. The game is between you and the animal and that's it. You will have much more fun shooting for meat and for fun than trying to impress the twits and turdies that unfortunately infest this sport.
 
I tried to do just this. Find a rifle/calibre that does it all. I don't like recoil. I ended up buying a Remington 700 7mm-08. Is this good for everything, no. I really had to look at what I was going to do with it. I wanted a rifle that has a little more range than my 30-30. Will it shoot beyond that, yes. I'm not going to hunt grizzlies, I'm not going to hunt buffalo and if I ever do then even I would like something with a little more punch. My 7-08 is wonderful to shoot and rounds don't cost me a mortgage payment. I'm actually happy that there isn't one gun for all as I'm always looking forward to buying a new gun that fits something else.
 
I was looking for my first "all around hunting rifle" and bought the new Winchester Model 70 Feather Weight in .30-06.
The quality of the rifle is amazing, FN really nailed it with this new version. IMHO it's by far the best rifle you can buy for under $1000.
 
I have a little story for this topic. Not fully relevant, but close enough.
The butcher in town uses a 45-70 to put down the animals that he butchers. At least the big ones. One day, he came over to shoot one of our steers. He loaded to rounds in to the gun, and I hearded the steer over to where he could get a clean shot with minimal background interference. Steer looks at him... BANG!!!! Head shot!!! down the steer goes, and within a few seconds, up the steer gets... He's clearly dead, as his eyes are bulging out of their sockets, he's bleeding like crazy from his nose and mouth, and his head is hanging at a funny angle from the neck. The steer starts waking backwards in a big circle. BANG!!! Another head shot, and down the steer goes again... And the steer gets back up, and starts walking, or stumbling in a large clockwise circle backwards again. Out comes the .22mag, and 2 more shots into the side of the neck, and the steer went down to stay.
Both shots from the big gun were between the eyes and 1.5 inches higher than the eye line. The first shot had broken the steers neck, and severed the spinal cord. the second shot went in slightly different path. From the meat, the steer had to have been dead from the first shot. It was extremely tender.

On a different note, I remember as a kid being shown how to hunt deer. Grandpa dropped 2 of them that were destroying the trees in the yard with a 22lr...

I kind of wonder about an animal standing back up with a severed spinal cord.
 
300 Mag......'The Crescent Wrench of Rifles'

I think the best all round NA caliber is the .338 RUM though. Flatter to 600 with a 250 TB @3000+MV, than the 300's and excellent accuracy, easy to match factory ballistics plus.

Works well both Near and Distant. Sheep to Bears. On Bison as well.

Tsavo
 
300 Mag......'The Crescent Wrench of Rifles'

I think the best all round NA caliber is the .338 RUM though. Flatter to 600 with a 250 TB @3000+MV, than the 300's and excellent accuracy, easy to match factory ballistics plus.

Works well both Near and Distant. Sheep to Bears. On Bison as well.

Tsavo

Fine logic, and appreciated the moniker for the .300 that new to me.
 
I've tried the "Crescent wrench" line a few times at the range, it usually gets a puzzled look followed by a grin after it soaks in. The .300 isn't always "just right" but by golly it ain't never wrong.

Besides "just right" mostly just applied to that blonde chick and those bears.
 
Dogleg.............it took me a second to relate to "that blonde chick and those bears" funny..............
The 300 WM is without a doubt the "crescent wrench" of all around NA calibers.....for sure. It does nothing wrong and one size fits all.......
 
If considering the .300WM also consider the .300WSM. Tried both and went with the .300WSM, prefer how it presents recoil (push more than punch) and accuracy very good / tolerant of various different hand loads (though settled on 168 TSX). Originally intent on Kimber Montana but X-Bolt seemed much better value proposition and money saved went into other gear (likely producing more weight savings and comfort than the difference between the two rifles).

If haven't decided on .243 then check out .25-06 - low recoil and very very flat.

More to it than just caliber choice, i.e. weight / mag system... so may prefer more than one rifle for reasons other than calibre.
 
A lot of us have been here...

My conclusion is that there is no "one rifle" that can do it all. That's why I have at least a dozen. .223 for the small stuff. 30-30 for thick bush. 30-06 for most other things. If I ever had a chance to go for really tough game I would buy a caliber accordingly.
. 308 semi for zombies...

Best advice so far is to find a caliber that your not afraid to shoot a lot.
 
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