rifle "tweaking"
- Thread starter adog
- Start date
- Location
- calgary alberta
Pillar bedding has positive benefits on most Rem 700s as does trigger reworking. Having optics well mounted is also beneficial. 300 yards for an 06 is still close range so some quality time at the range will instill more confidence for sure
- Location
- calgary alberta
9" at 300 yards ??? I would hope that any responsible hunter would be ashamed with 9" groups at 300 yards off the bench. Hence would not attempt a shot in field conditions with that lack of accuracy as if that is all that can be done off the bench , it would be nearly double that size off hand
Rick,
Note that Sunray said, "hit a 9" pie plate every time" not, "be able to shoot 9" groups". A big difference and, for hunting, a fairly reasonable minimum requirement. Keep in mind that, in order for a 1moa rifle to always hit that 9" circle, it must be perfectly sighted in and the shooter must be capable of holding within 6" (2 moa)and judging the wind to within 1.5" (.5moa) to be certain of hitting that 9" pie plate every time.
In any case, I won't even test a factory rifle before it is glass bedded and the trigger set. I would make an exception in the case of one of the plastic stocked rifles since I think bedding is of less value in these. Regards, Bill
Note that Sunray said, "hit a 9" pie plate every time" not, "be able to shoot 9" groups". A big difference and, for hunting, a fairly reasonable minimum requirement. Keep in mind that, in order for a 1moa rifle to always hit that 9" circle, it must be perfectly sighted in and the shooter must be capable of holding within 6" (2 moa)and judging the wind to within 1.5" (.5moa) to be certain of hitting that 9" pie plate every time.
In any case, I won't even test a factory rifle before it is glass bedded and the trigger set. I would make an exception in the case of one of the plastic stocked rifles since I think bedding is of less value in these. Regards, Bill
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
For your Rem, definitely bed that action and free float the barrel. Get rid of that barrel hump. If there is no squishing feeling when you tighten the action screws, pillar bedding is not that critical but not a bad idea. Of course, trigger lightening/tuning is never wasted money. Good Optics and mounts?
The best improvement you can make after this is handloading. I prefer to collet neck size my fired brass. 165gr SST and H4350Extreme lit by a CCI BR2 primer will give you superb accuracy.
There is little reason to believe your rifle cannot shoot MOA or better from a proper bench rest. However, if all you have is a 1.5 or 2MOA rifle, that is still plenty for normal hunting distances. From there you can work on your field position shooting and your max engagement distances.
ATR and I are going to differ on necessary accuracy. I believe that for deer, the max range you should shoot is 100% hit on a 10" target UNDER FIELD CONDITIONS. And I do mean 100% - no sighters, fouling shots or WHY. One shot, one hit rain/wind/snow/sun/standing/off a backpack/etc.
So, if you shoot from a bench set up in the field, your max range is going to be a lot further (assuming gun/load is up to the task) then shooting offhand. Heavy winds closer then dead still mornings, and so on.
The only way to know your max engagement ranges is to practise, practise, practise under the conditions and positions you intend to hunt. Even better if you can shoot in the areas you will hunt.
Knowing your limits, not necessarily what those limits are, is key to being a responsible hunter.
Jerry
The best improvement you can make after this is handloading. I prefer to collet neck size my fired brass. 165gr SST and H4350Extreme lit by a CCI BR2 primer will give you superb accuracy.
There is little reason to believe your rifle cannot shoot MOA or better from a proper bench rest. However, if all you have is a 1.5 or 2MOA rifle, that is still plenty for normal hunting distances. From there you can work on your field position shooting and your max engagement distances.
ATR and I are going to differ on necessary accuracy. I believe that for deer, the max range you should shoot is 100% hit on a 10" target UNDER FIELD CONDITIONS. And I do mean 100% - no sighters, fouling shots or WHY. One shot, one hit rain/wind/snow/sun/standing/off a backpack/etc.
So, if you shoot from a bench set up in the field, your max range is going to be a lot further (assuming gun/load is up to the task) then shooting offhand. Heavy winds closer then dead still mornings, and so on.
The only way to know your max engagement ranges is to practise, practise, practise under the conditions and positions you intend to hunt. Even better if you can shoot in the areas you will hunt.
Knowing your limits, not necessarily what those limits are, is key to being a responsible hunter.
Jerry
- Location
- calgary alberta
Bill, Jerry I think we are all on the same page, just maybe different ways of stating it. To be able to 100% hit a 9 or 10 target under any conditions at 300 yards will certainly do the job, unfortunately I see guys , especially out at the public range that think hitting a 9" pie plate under semi ideal conditions, off the bench makes their rifles good to go for hunting, my point was that off the bench is a WHOLE lot different from field conditions and that if 1 is only capable of 9" at 300 off the bench then more work is required, either to the rifle or by the shooter at the range.
I get criticized for my extreme long range hunting techniques, but shoot my rifles year round under all conditions and if I can not consistently keep under moa accuracy will not use the rig. I encounter many guys in the field that have wounded animals by taking shots they should NEVER attempt and most seem to think that pieplate accuracy is good enough, most however fail to grasp that hunting situations differ dramatically from bench work
I get criticized for my extreme long range hunting techniques, but shoot my rifles year round under all conditions and if I can not consistently keep under moa accuracy will not use the rig. I encounter many guys in the field that have wounded animals by taking shots they should NEVER attempt and most seem to think that pieplate accuracy is good enough, most however fail to grasp that hunting situations differ dramatically from bench work
- Location
- calgary alberta
Good optics help with long range shooting, to be sure, if your handloads are good the rifle will perform better than with factory. Bedding will help the rifle consistantly hit the same point of impact. Lighter trigger pressures will help to improve accuary of the shooter. I find most shooters cant their rifles, at close range this makes very little difference, but at longer ranges the cant makes a noticeable difference. Be aware that bullets react differently at different ranges, ie Sierra Matchkings are very poor hunting bullets at close range, but at extreme long ranges work well due to their thin jackets and rapid expansion. Partitions and Bear Claws work well at most ranges under 700 yards after which the heavier constuction makes expansion less reliable.
Range finders are a great investment for long range hunting as being off by a hundred yards in range estimation can mean a missed shot.
Practice is still the best help, shooting gophers with your hunting rifle is a real good way to get great real world shooting enhancement
Range finders are a great investment for long range hunting as being off by a hundred yards in range estimation can mean a missed shot.
Practice is still the best help, shooting gophers with your hunting rifle is a real good way to get great real world shooting enhancement
I definately agree that range finders are a good investment. I live in the "mid-west" and judging distances can difficult. How much would it cost to get my barrel bedded? I shoot 162gr, nosle patrtition bullets, but I am open to suggestions for a better shell. this may sond dumb, but I think websites like this are the sh=t. To get opinions and advice from others that are avid shooters helps me alot. Thanks
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
The further you go, the more accurate and fragile a bullet you need to use.
Impact velocity determines bullet expansion characteristics. Just match that with the size of game you are hunting and you will have great success.
In my 7RM, I use the SST for closer shots and the Amax for distance. Both are 162gr launched at 3000+fps.
Jerry
Impact velocity determines bullet expansion characteristics. Just match that with the size of game you are hunting and you will have great success.
In my 7RM, I use the SST for closer shots and the Amax for distance. Both are 162gr launched at 3000+fps.
Jerry
- Location
- calgary alberta
adog You do not want the barrel bedded, you want the action bedded for stability and fit to the stock, the barrel you want to have free floated, so as to allow the barrel to react the same way for every shot.
My shop charges $135.00 to piller bed the action and free float the barrel.
For the distances you mention shooting at this point , the Partition is hard to beat for reliability. Only once you get out to extreme long range does the bullet construction become more important.
Another thing to contemplate, is that heavier bullets retain velocity and energy longer than lighter 1s do. Your 06 is probably best with the 165s you presently use,so I would not rush out and change, but if you wanted to experiment to see how well your rifle works with 180s , this could increase your potential killing range effectiveness.
My shop charges $135.00 to piller bed the action and free float the barrel.
For the distances you mention shooting at this point , the Partition is hard to beat for reliability. Only once you get out to extreme long range does the bullet construction become more important.
Another thing to contemplate, is that heavier bullets retain velocity and energy longer than lighter 1s do. Your 06 is probably best with the 165s you presently use,so I would not rush out and change, but if you wanted to experiment to see how well your rifle works with 180s , this could increase your potential killing range effectiveness.
- Location
- calgary alberta
I am running a few weeks behind, but if you can hang on till mid Feb should be able to get it done in short order
Republic of Alberta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- ,location, location
Free floating the bbl will not always provide the best accuracy. I have a Ruger that I sanded the forend hump off and it shot worse with all the loads I tryed. I got tired of farting around so I put an epoxy forend tip on with a lot of upward pressure. The gun shoots most thigs good and some things spectacular now.
Sometimes I reverse tweak a rifle. I pick a bullet I want to hunt with with a powder I want to use (a temprature stable one) load it up to the velocity i want and strart messing with the gun untill I can get it to shoot the way I want. Sometimes upward pressure with epoxy helps. If the stock is wood I seal it up as best as possible to reduce andy movement of the wood as it can have a large affect of point of imact change with a pressure beded rifle.
Sometimes I reverse tweak a rifle. I pick a bullet I want to hunt with with a powder I want to use (a temprature stable one) load it up to the velocity i want and strart messing with the gun untill I can get it to shoot the way I want. Sometimes upward pressure with epoxy helps. If the stock is wood I seal it up as best as possible to reduce andy movement of the wood as it can have a large affect of point of imact change with a pressure beded rifle.
- Location
- calgary alberta
Republic I have found Rugers seldom benefit from floating, sometimes bedding and floating will help them, but not a sure thing. Remingtons, Sakos, Winchesters however, 99% of the time, will shoot better when properly bedded and floated. Especially with heavier barrel contours. Sometimes real light contoured barrels work better with forend pressure, each rifle is a personality of its own though.
To keep the wood sealed is a good idea as it is changes with moisture in the air
To keep the wood sealed is a good idea as it is changes with moisture in the air
- Location
- calgary alberta
403 277-7786 is the phone number
Shop is at 2136 8th ave N.E. Please give a call before you come as I work some very odd hours here lately.
Rick
Shop is at 2136 8th ave N.E. Please give a call before you come as I work some very odd hours here lately.
Rick
Interesting comments re. the Rugers. I have never seen one which did not respond well to bedding the action and floating the barrel and I know I've bedded and tested scores of them.
They frequently will not shoot well if the forend pressure is removed and the action is not glass bedded simply because the action is often quite a poor fit in the stock. Regards, Bill
They frequently will not shoot well if the forend pressure is removed and the action is not glass bedded simply because the action is often quite a poor fit in the stock. Regards, Bill
