Rifle vs Pistol .44 load data Hornady Manual

Scarumanga

Scarumanga

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I want to load up my 300gr XTP that I just got in today. I started out just loading the pistol .44 loads near the back of the book for my 240gr FTX and they shoot great with 23 to 23.5gr H110. However I just noticed the Rifle data, and noticed its loads are quite a bit lower in the powder amount. The standard .44 Pistol 300gr loads start out at 17.5gr H110 which I was literally about to start at, but the Rifle load data starts at 11.4gr. That is a huge difference in powder charge, max load for Rifle is 18.4.
I am shooting a Mare's leg, so I figure I should go with the Rifle data and start at 11.4gr. But really..why the huge difference? I would think a Rifle action is stronger than a revolvers... At the same time these are expensive bullets and I only have a box of 50, is starting at 11.4 a waste of bullets? that's a long way to work up to the minimum 17.5gr in for handgun. Should i start somewhere between?
I am using Starline brass and WLP, and of course H110.
 
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Yeah that’s why reloading manuals shouldn’t be followed religiously. There’s lots of inconsistencies in reloading manuals you will pick up on over the years.

I’m not sure why there would be such a discrepancy between the loads. If it were my rifle, I’d start at 17.5gn.
 
My Hornady manual shows the same 15.6 max load of 296 (same powder as H110) for both rifle and pistol. 1600 fps in a rifle.

The hotter load you see for the pistol might be the Ruger Blackhawk loads. Stronger than a rifle.
 
That's what where I'm leaning.. I might tone it down to 16.5 for the first one, but my Lee book even states 18gr starting load for a 300 XTP, and it is just a general "44 magnum" section, doesn't specify Rifle or Pistol or anything.
 
Ganderite said:
My Hornady manual shows the same 15.6 max load of 296 (same powder as H110) for both rifle and pistol. 1600 fps in a rifle.

The hotter load you see for the pistol might be the Ruger Blackhawk loads. Stronger than a rifle.
Click to expand...

There's only 2 Pistol sections in my manual for .44, the first one is just plainly labelled "44 Remington Magnum" and it its details does say Ruger Blackhawk., then the next section is called "44 Remington Magnum (T/C)" and in the details says Thompson Center (which has the hottest loads of all of them and I assume dangerous in my gun). When I flipped back a few pages from my 45-70 section, I found 44 Remington Magnum (Rifle) which says Ruger Carbine.
Mine is the 7th Edition.
My lee book is the Second edition, it doesn't specifiy what gun is used for its "44 Magnum" section, but the loads start in the Mid-range that the Hornady shows for Pistol.
Really confusing
 
I load all my .44mag to max revolver loads. Reason is I have several levers, revolvers and pistols... don’t ever want to mix it up by accident so that’s my safest course of action. Black bears o shot with my carbines have pretty all been bang-flops so that’s enough power for me.
 
Scarumanga said:
There's only 2 Pistol sections in my manual for .44, the first one is just plainly labelled "44 Remington Magnum" and it its details does say Ruger Blackhawk., then the next section is called "44 Remington Magnum (T/C)" and in the details says Thompson Center (which has the hottest loads of all of them and I assume dangerous in my gun). When I flipped back a few pages from my 45-70 section, I found 44 Remington Magnum (Rifle) which says Ruger Carbine.
Mine is the 7th Edition.
My lee book is the Second edition, it doesn't specifiy what gun is used for its "44 Magnum" section, but the loads start in the Mid-range that the Hornady shows for Pistol.
Really confusing
Click to expand...

Mine is 8th edition.

Look to see if 44 mag also has a section under RIFLE calibers.
 
Ganderite said:
Mine is 8th edition.

Look to see if 44 mag also has a section under RIFLE calibers.
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Yeah, I took a closer look at the 44 magnum under the Rifle section and actually read the entire write-up carefully. So it seems the rifle loads are so low is because they are meant for an auto-loader (Ruger carbine), and are also not to be reduced any further or they wont work right. I assumed it was just all Rifle's in general.
 
Boomer686 said:
I load all my .44mag to max revolver loads. Reason is I have several levers, revolvers and pistols... don’t ever want to mix it up by accident so that’s my safest course of action. Black bears o shot with my carbines have pretty all been bang-flops so that’s enough power for me.
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:agree::rockOn:
 
Could it have anything do do with the rifle's lack of cylinder gap meaning that there's more pressure in the rifle, and the reloading manual is just being conservative because of that?

In reality, though, if there was any meaningful difference, there would different factory loads available for different guns.
 
Different firearm designs have different pressures they can safely discharge.
Not all bolts are the same, nor are all revolvers or levers.
This is why we have to read and re-read loading manuals to completely comprehend what risk we are subjecting us and our guns to.
Factory ammo is no different, they supply what is available to be safe in what they say it is safe for.
For instance factories make 45/70 ammo that is safe in everything 45/70, but they also make 45/70 which is only safe in stronger actions. The superformance 325 comes to mind, safe for Marlin 1895’s but huge problems in a trapdoor (and others).
My Chiappa Mares Leg is a 1892 clone and they were generally rated to 42,000 psi or 38,000 CUP.
I’d look at data that keeps you within this pressure envelope and as always, start low and work up.
Many consider the ‘92 to be stronger than the ‘94 action, Rossi even chambered it in .454.
I’m looking forward to your trials as I’m looking for loads as well
 
Currently I only loaded 2 up to test out. 17.5 grains and 18 grains of H110 using winchester WLP. Taking info from 3 separate recipe's (Hornady, Lee, Hodgdon) 17.5gr/18gr would be at a standard .44 mag 300 XTP starting load with H110. Hodgon states 19gr of H110 having 38800CUP. My gun is also a Chiappa Mare's Leg..
The Lee and Hodgdon books I have do not have separate .44 mag "Rifle" load data in their Rifle sections, only the Hornady seem's to...but again a closer read on the Rifle loads it states the Ruger Carbine Auto-loader.
 
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tomknotts said:
Barrel length is probably a big factor for less powder. as well as cyliner gap
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My armchair thoughts are, no.
Barrel length might influence the burn rate of the powder you chose (not in this case IMO).
A rifle over a handgun has a longer barrel and offers a larger combustion chamber (chamber plus barrel) to push the bullet longer (time) before exiting the barrel which in theory provides higher velocity.
To slow a powder and you get a big flash, or all the chemical energy of the powder used isn’t applied to the projectile.
To fast a powder and pressures can rise to high and kaboom, or to a lesser degree the energy is expended before the projectile has exited the barrel.
I could go on but for a 12” barrel it’s moot as it’s not long enough for this issue.
Load data for a cartridge has no ability to factor in how sloppy your action is either.
Firearms are engineered to a design envelope, then proof tested.
Ammo is designed to have a pressure curve and are tested, manufactured and labelled to ensure safe compatibility.
The reloading manuals we buy and study all adhere to these accepted standards and present new data as it becomes available which is why replacing your manuals over time isn’t a bad idea.
If manuals offer different maximum loads for the same powder read the page twice, they have offered a safe load for a specific gun, or type of gun based off of what the safe operating pressure of it is. For some cartridges it turns up the performance (45/70) but for others (44RM) it can turn it down.

I’m looking forward to your chrony data Sacaramunga, let us know how it turns out.
 
No chronograph. Maybe I should buy one. The 300 grain bullets feed and shoot fine, however I only tested 2 which were 17.5 and 18gr. Very little recoil when compared to the 240's I loaded up with 22 and 23gr.
 
Scarumanga said:
I want to load up my 300gr XTP that I just got in today. I started out just loading the pistol .44 loads near the back of the book for my 240gr FTX and they shoot great with 23 to 23.5gr H110. However I just noticed the Rifle data, and noticed its loads are quite a bit lower in the powder amount. The standard .44 Pistol 300gr loads start out at 17.5gr H110 which I was literally about to start at, but the Rifle load data starts at 11.4gr. That is a huge difference in powder charge, max load for Rifle is 18.4.
I am shooting a Mare's leg, so I figure I should go with the Rifle data and start at 11.4gr. But really..why the huge difference? I would think a Rifle action is stronger than a revolvers... At the same time these are expensive bullets and I only have a box of 50, is starting at 11.4 a waste of bullets? that's a long way to work up to the minimum 17.5gr in for handgun. Should i start somewhere between?
I am using Starline brass and WLP, and of course H110.
Click to expand...

I have lymans 49th manual and it also lists less powder for .357 mag loads for rifle vs pistol. which makes no sense to me.... IMO it should be the opposite.

i wonder if it has something to do with reaching the same velocity? esp with lead bullets ?


However if I put 300gr , 44 mag, 18.4 gr H110 into quickload , it gives a max pressure of 23927 psi, which is a safe pressure

as always, dont load your stuff per data found on the interwebz
 
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