Rimfire accuracy?
- Thread starter Rubikahn
- Start date
Yes, the target pistols will put something like a P22 (or a SIG mosquito) to shame in terms of accuracy, regardless of experience level, and regardless of whether the P22 is sporting a 3.4 inch, 5 inch, or any other length of barrel.
The "compensator" on P22 5 inch is just cosmetic and I recommend that the first thing P22 owners do is take it off and put in a closet or drawer somewhere. The only difference between a 5 inch "target" model and the U.S. model with the 3.4 inch barrel is the barrel length and the presence of that "compensator" thing. There is no "match trigger", target sites, or anything like that.
If I slow fire my P22, total concentration, controlled breathing, the whole 9 yards - using good ammo - I can't really do any better than a two inch group at 15 metres. That's pretty good shootin' if you were talking duty pistol calibres, but for a .22LR pistol with a fixed barrel that is nothing special. Any Ruger Mark III you take off the shelf of your local gun shop will outshoot any P22 - and I'm not even talking bull barrel target models.... I'm talking ANY Ruger. Target guns like a Walther GSP are a whole other level up from there. I don't have experience with those funky looking target pistols, but I see people using them at the range sometimes, and they tend to be making "ragged holes" in their targets, and not the "groups" (distinct hits on the paper) the rest of us are familiar with.
I'm a big fan of the P22 as you can see in my other posts - hell even my avatar is a P22 now! I love that little gun, but it's a fun gun, not a target pistol. It's a gun for trying to get off 10 shots in "one s-t-e-a-m-b-o-a-t" (it can almost be done
, maybe a little under one and a half steamboats), a gun for putting 400 rounds through in an afternoon, and just generally having a blast with. But in a head-to-head with any serious target pistol, the P22 won't even be in the game. if you are wanting to get into real competition-style target shooting, get a target pistol. If you want to get a .22 pistol to work on noobie shooting in general, including basic accuracy, by all means get a P22. They are cool guns. Less accurate than a lot of things (revolvers, target pistols, Ruger and Browning .22's, etc.), but more accurate than a duty calibre auto pistol.
The "compensator" on P22 5 inch is just cosmetic and I recommend that the first thing P22 owners do is take it off and put in a closet or drawer somewhere. The only difference between a 5 inch "target" model and the U.S. model with the 3.4 inch barrel is the barrel length and the presence of that "compensator" thing. There is no "match trigger", target sites, or anything like that.
If I slow fire my P22, total concentration, controlled breathing, the whole 9 yards - using good ammo - I can't really do any better than a two inch group at 15 metres. That's pretty good shootin' if you were talking duty pistol calibres, but for a .22LR pistol with a fixed barrel that is nothing special. Any Ruger Mark III you take off the shelf of your local gun shop will outshoot any P22 - and I'm not even talking bull barrel target models.... I'm talking ANY Ruger. Target guns like a Walther GSP are a whole other level up from there. I don't have experience with those funky looking target pistols, but I see people using them at the range sometimes, and they tend to be making "ragged holes" in their targets, and not the "groups" (distinct hits on the paper) the rest of us are familiar with.
I'm a big fan of the P22 as you can see in my other posts - hell even my avatar is a P22 now! I love that little gun, but it's a fun gun, not a target pistol. It's a gun for trying to get off 10 shots in "one s-t-e-a-m-b-o-a-t" (it can almost be done
, maybe a little under one and a half steamboats), a gun for putting 400 rounds through in an afternoon, and just generally having a blast with. But in a head-to-head with any serious target pistol, the P22 won't even be in the game. if you are wanting to get into real competition-style target shooting, get a target pistol. If you want to get a .22 pistol to work on noobie shooting in general, including basic accuracy, by all means get a P22. They are cool guns. Less accurate than a lot of things (revolvers, target pistols, Ruger and Browning .22's, etc.), but more accurate than a duty calibre auto pistol.
Last edited:
Yuri Orlov
Regular
Say what???ghostie said:
The most accurate gun in the world, isn't going to be the most accurate gun in the world in the hands of someone with no/little experience. No matter how good the gun is, the shooter still has to be able to take advantage of that accuracy...and that takes time and experience. Experience level is a HUGE factor.
It would take an experienced shooter. When first starting out, any quality gun is going to be more accurate than you're able to shoot. But as you gain experience and become a better shot, you may find yourself at the limit of said gun and want something "better". Do you need something expensive and super accurate to start out? Of course not! In most cases...especially for beginning shooters...it's a better idea to skip the top of the line model and get something more affordable. Put all the money you saved into ammunition, and get out there and shoot. Then once you're able to take advantage of the accuracy of the higher end/more accurate firearms, you can move up.Rubikahn said:
Besides these guns aren't cheap, and you don't want to spend a lot of money only to end up with something you don't like. Gain some experience with more affordable models, and learn what you like and don't like. Then spend the big bucks on the high end stuff.
JMO
The high end gun's ergonomics are designed to make it as easy as possible for the shooter to get accurate shots on target under the rules for that style of competetion, such as pistol must be able to be place in a regulation "box" for size restriction, how much wrap wrap around is allowed for the grip, sight radius, trigger pull, mag capacity, single hand hold only.
That why "Standard Class" pistols like the Pardini Sp. Walther GSP, Hämmerli Sp20 etc... do no not have the longer barrels and wrap around grips of the same companies single shot "Free Pistols".
Check out the differences here:
http://www.targetshooting.ca/firearm_db.cfm
Even guns from the old days of NRA shooting such as S&W41, High Standard, Browing Target etc, no not have the ergonomics for the average shooter to do as well as with the ISSF Standard Pistols.
That why "Standard Class" pistols like the Pardini Sp. Walther GSP, Hämmerli Sp20 etc... do no not have the longer barrels and wrap around grips of the same companies single shot "Free Pistols".
Check out the differences here:
http://www.targetshooting.ca/firearm_db.cfm
Even guns from the old days of NRA shooting such as S&W41, High Standard, Browing Target etc, no not have the ergonomics for the average shooter to do as well as with the ISSF Standard Pistols.
Last edited:
Yuri Orlov said:Say what???
The most accurate gun in the world, isn't going to be the most accurate gun in the world in the hands of someone with no/little experience. No matter how good the gun is, the shooter still has to be able to take advantage of that accuracy...and that takes time and experience. Experience level is a HUGE factor.
I totally agree with you Yuri. Experience counts with all shooting. All I'm really saying is that, using a P22 for bullseye accuracy, it is the kind of gun where - although experience is of course a factor - the gun itself isn't inherently accurate enough to allow an experienced shooter to really distinguish themself from a less experienced shooter. It's like if you had a bullseye competition with Glock pistols. The best shooters, people like Dave Sevigny, would not necessarily prevail over much less experienced shooters... just becasue the gun itself is not inherently accurate enough for this kind of bullseye shooting. That's not what it was designed for. But in an IPSC-style competition, the Dave Sevigny's of the world would lay down a blistering barrage of fire that would leave the less experienced shooters (and the rest of us
) with our mouths hanging open. In this kind of shooting, the limits of the gun don't negate the skill of the shooter.The same principle applies in comparing the P22 and the GSP: they are just "apples and oranges". One is a "fun gun" that in some ways mimics the experience of shooting a 9mm duty pistol (but a 3 cents a pop, instead of 20) by scaling the gun down to a size where you actually get some movement in the gun when firing - especially with something like a CCI Velocitor. The other is a super-accurate target pistol that is much more accurate (and much more accurate at greater distances) and will allow the differences between the good shooters and the noobies to show up on the target much better.
Take this example. I've been shooting for a little over 20 years now. I've put 300-400 rounds a week through my P22 since I bought it early last year. The best I can do slowfiring it is about a 2 inch group at 15m. I don't find it to be effective gun for 25m, but if I shoot it at 25m, add at least an inch onto that group... probably more like an inch and a half.
My girlfriend has been shooting since May of last year. I think she has above average aptitude for shooting, but still, the experience level is not there. She bought a Ruger 22/45 this summer. It's not the most "target" model you can get - it's the 4.5 inch bull-barrel. On the very first day we took it out, she was regularly shooting 1 inch (Quarter sized) groups on stand-up targets we were setting up between 10 and 15 metres. With the 22/45, you can also start to take more of a serious run at target shooting at 25 metres. The action of the gun just has so much less movement to it, the gun is heavier, it doesn't move around anything like the P22, the barrel on the 22/45 is far thicker, etc. The P22 just can't compete with it for accuracy... because it is not designed to. I think that with something like a Walther GSP or SSP, the difference would be even more noticable.
So, for Rubikahn, if you have any aspirations of doing competition-style .22LR target shooting, get an appropriate target pistol. If your concern is whether the P22 is "accurate enough" for just general fun shooting, then yah it's totally fine for that purpose.
Last edited:
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
If your plans are slow fire competition with HG's, I consider the Drulov as an ideal starter pistol. Nice set trigger, surprisingly accurate with good ergonomics.
If you are looking at a pistol that is accurate, I can only recommend the Rugers. I have owned a model from every series except the MKIII and they just shoot so well. The triggers can be tuned to be an excellent and light pull. Ergonomics fit most hands and they shoot very well with reg. HP 22LR.
If you don't need the bolt hold open, get a Mk1 for very little money and have at it.
All Rugers are supposed to be factory tested to shoot under 1" at 20yds 5 rds before leaving the factory. Accurate enough?
Jerry
If you are looking at a pistol that is accurate, I can only recommend the Rugers. I have owned a model from every series except the MKIII and they just shoot so well. The triggers can be tuned to be an excellent and light pull. Ergonomics fit most hands and they shoot very well with reg. HP 22LR.
If you don't need the bolt hold open, get a Mk1 for very little money and have at it.
All Rugers are supposed to be factory tested to shoot under 1" at 20yds 5 rds before leaving the factory. Accurate enough?
Jerry
- Location
- Hillbilly shack in the boonies
Bull barrel rugers are accurate, had a government model that was super accurate 6 7/8 '' barrel
.22 accuracy depends more on the ammo than anything else. Given a good trigger and sights. Both tend to be better in higher end pistols. You can spend a couple grand on a .22 target pistol. Feed it ammo it doesn't like and you'll have no end of trouble. Some ammo won't cycle the action on some pistols either. The price of said ammo means nothing. Some pistols, like the S&W M41, are very particular about ammo.
Given a pistol using ammo it likes, it would take an experienced shooter to tell the difference in accuracy between ammo brands the pistol will cycle though. However, it doesn't take an expert to know if the pistol doesn't like the ammo though. Lots of jamming and/or failures to feed is the biggest indication. You have to try as many brands of ammo as you can to find the one or two that the pistol will cycle and shoot well. Even with a $2,000 pistol.
Given a pistol using ammo it likes, it would take an experienced shooter to tell the difference in accuracy between ammo brands the pistol will cycle though. However, it doesn't take an expert to know if the pistol doesn't like the ammo though. Lots of jamming and/or failures to feed is the biggest indication. You have to try as many brands of ammo as you can to find the one or two that the pistol will cycle and shoot well. Even with a $2,000 pistol.
