I though there was a limit to how short a bbl can be used...maybe 4"? Theoretically you could have a 1" bbl on a 23" long stock and it would still be legal? I know its absurd.
Rimfire barrel length question
- Thread starter olhol
- Start date
I though there was a limit to how short a bbl can be used...maybe 4"? Theoretically you could have a 1" bbl on a 23" long stock and it would still be legal? I know its absurd.
Handgun barrels cannot be shorter than ~4.2". I don't think that applies to rifle barrels though. From the criminal code:
Seems to me a 1" barrel on a 22cal rifle would be perfectly legal. And you wouldn't need a long stock to keep it legal, you'd just need the long stock to keep it NR.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Yes 106mm or greater. But have not seen a barrel that short on a rifle.
The Criminal code specifies handgun barrel. I've never seen a 3" rifle barrel but I don't see anything that would make it prohib.
You are correct on the barrel, but not the OAL. If the gun is manufactured at a length shorter than the 26" limit it can still be NR as long as it doesn't meet any of the other criteria for restricted.
Mark
I was thinking aftermarket 1" barrel, as that's the only way to ACTUALLY get a 1" barrel (unless someone is manufacturing a 1" barreled rifle I don't know about).
That said, if it was from the factory, the lab might just call it a handgun and make it prohib. Mares Legs come in two sizes, 9" and 12" barrels. 12" barrels are below 26" OAL, but NR rifles, while the 9" ones are handguns and thus restricted.
They've also classified some very short pistol grip only pump action shotguns as handguns. You can't really predict wtf the lab will call something, they don't rely on logic or consistency.
Changing the barrel doesn't make it restricted or prohib, because it is not 'a firearm that is adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration'. Changing the barrel is not sawing, cutting or altering the existing firearm.
Mark
How is changing a barrel not an alteration to the firearm?
brownbear53
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
To answer OPs original question,
YES, you can replace a barrel on the factory 10/22 with a shorter one and remain NR as long as it meets 26" (660mm) OAL.
This is to be done in firing condition (muzzle devices included when installed and torqued on)
Muzzle devices do count to OAL length, but not barrel length.
The shorter barrel needs to be manufactured to that length, i.e. You will have marking on the barrel indicating length and manufacturer, which stand for proof that it was not cut down under 18" (altered)
I have seen factory 10/22s with 7-8" barrels in a chassis that meet the NR requirement.
This has been argued many times online here, it is legal to change barrels with aftermarket barrels of shorter length. Ones personal opinion does not change precedence.
YES, you can replace a barrel on the factory 10/22 with a shorter one and remain NR as long as it meets 26" (660mm) OAL.
This is to be done in firing condition (muzzle devices included when installed and torqued on)
Muzzle devices do count to OAL length, but not barrel length.
The shorter barrel needs to be manufactured to that length, i.e. You will have marking on the barrel indicating length and manufacturer, which stand for proof that it was not cut down under 18" (altered)
I have seen factory 10/22s with 7-8" barrels in a chassis that meet the NR requirement.
Changing the barrel is a part replacement, it is not an alteration as the original factory production state was not altered. It is not a permanent change, meaning the factory barrel can be reinstalled at any time, no different than swapping a trigger or stock. Cutting a factory barrel is an alteration as you cannot return it to the original condition.
This has been argued many times online here, it is legal to change barrels with aftermarket barrels of shorter length. Ones personal opinion does not change precedence.
brownbear53
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
I owned an AR with a 4" barrel in 5.56, it was a **noisemaker, pigtail gas tube, etc. They exist.
Installing that on any other rifle that takes AR barrels would make it Restricted, not prohibited.
Installing that on a Pistol lower which I also own, would maker it Prohibited however, as that AR was technically a restricted pistol, not a restricted rifle. that had a 7" barrel on it.
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What makes you think muzzle devices count towards OAL? I don't disagree that it SHOULD count, but I had it in writing from the lab they don't.
How is changing the barrel not changing the factory production state? Did it leave the factory with that barrel? No.
As alteration is not specifically defined in the act, one must look at available definitions from other sources.
Dictionary.com
Cambridge dictionary.
I'd love an explanation as to how changing a barrel is neither "a change, modification, or adjustment" nor "a change... in appearance, character, or structure...".
- Location
- Nova Scotia
You had it in writing. I had many stuff in writing and now it comes down it was it actually what was written, or was totally different. You can get different answers from different people and different officers. The RCMP is hardly one to take legal advice from as they keep trying to say ARs are assault rifles.
Why do you really care, they're not hurting you. I got a 12inch 9mm barrel on a Lee enfield that we did not touch the barrel in anyway. The legal definition of Alter is vague like anything and can be interpreted both ways.
While another smith suggested cutting 3/4" off a already under pre built 18" barrel.
I say do whatever, that isn't directly illegal.
It sort of looks like the section you quote from is not intended for rimfire's and it looks like it's actually referring to semi auto's and not manual centerfire rifles that can have shorter then 18" barrels and be over 26 inches.
Or maybe those both count as alterations, but because they don't change the length they are not applicable to classification.
Changing a barrel to a shorter one absolutely reduces the length of the gun. Is changing a barrel "or otherwise"? I would say yes, because it pretty much captures anything.
Well that is the problem isn't it? What IS/ISN'T illegal? Is it illegal to change the barrel on a gun? Generally no. Is it illegal to make a NR gun into an R gun, and then never go through the process of getting it registered? Yes it is.
The question is, does putting a shorter barrel on a gun, taking it from a factory form of >26" to a non-factory form of <26" make it a restricted firearm? I would say yes, because changing a barrel to a shorter one absolutely reduces the length of the rifle, and "or otherwise" might appear vague but it isn't, in context it would appear to mean something along the lines of "anything we didn't list already that'll shorten the gun", its a catch-all term to include anything they didn't specify.
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Good point Suther, but that doesn't change the fact that a site of dedicated gun owners is debating what should be very easy to understand laws and regulations.
It's absurd and the tip of the iceberg of how bad our govts have gotten since confederation.
K.I.S.S needs to be applied.
We've talked about this in the past but according to our laws, putting a leather pad on the back of a non restricted mare's leg that is shorter then 660mm out of the box and increasing or altering it's factory length to a longer measurement that is still under 660mm would create a prohibited item.
The spirit of the law was to keep criminals from shortening weapons and yet the result is non criminals are captured when they increase the length slightly..... Fail.
It's absurd and the tip of the iceberg of how bad our govts have gotten since confederation.
K.I.S.S needs to be applied.
We've talked about this in the past but according to our laws, putting a leather pad on the back of a non restricted mare's leg that is shorter then 660mm out of the box and increasing or altering it's factory length to a longer measurement that is still under 660mm would create a prohibited item.
The spirit of the law was to keep criminals from shortening weapons and yet the result is non criminals are captured when they increase the length slightly..... Fail.
I don't think so. The law specifies "reduced". Based on the wording of the definition of Restricted Firearm, I don't think making a gun longer would have any impact on turning an NR gun into an R gun, even if it remained under 660mm after the change.
There you go again trying to apply common sense where little exists....
Maybe there is a section where it specificly says it only applies to reduction in length and I have not seen it, but in the OP's first post he brings up what looks like a center fire semi auto requirement which is likely part of his confusion but it does not really address the direction of length and only suggests that altering to less then 660mm is a problem?
The fact non restricted factory guns less then 660mm exist is part of the quagmire.
There you go again trying to apply common sense where little exists....
Maybe there is a section where it specificly says it only applies to reduction in length and I have not seen it, but in the OP's first post he brings up what looks like a center fire semi auto requirement which is likely part of his confusion but it does not really address the direction of length and only suggests that altering to less then 660mm is a problem?
The fact non restricted factory guns less then 660mm exist is part of the quagmire.
While it does appear the OP is looking at rules specific to centerfire semi autos, the 660mm rule applies to all guns, and specifies "...when reduced to a length...".
Section 84 of the Criminal Code of Canada contains the definition of Restricted Firearm.
The thing you reference about barrel length is in section (b)(ii), and (b)(iii) specifies that only applies to centerfire semi autos, but section (c) applies to all guns.
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Not many folding or telescoping stocks or otherwise are meant to make things longer.... more likely none.
It's such a mess of legislation that depending on what section you look at things can be argued in different directions.
It's such a mess of legislation that depending on what section you look at things can be argued in different directions.
