Rimfire Muzzle Tuner Device? Worth it?

Canadiankeeper

Canadiankeeper

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So I have gone out and dropped my CZ into a decent little set up. I guess I could have spent more and got a custom barrel but there are a lot of CZ s on the 1/2 moa at 50 challenge enough, figured I would save the $ out of the gate and give the stock barrel a try.

I have tested about 7 "types" of ammo,
SK Match,
Eley Club, biathalon, match, tennex.
Federal Match
CCI standard and HV.

Eley tennex seems to be the best, but it is still not laying one hole groups like my old Annie did.

I have not played w tension to the chassis, I need an extended bit for the MDT chassis.

I figured ill do that first, but Ive seen barrel turners and heard mixed reviews. Might be cheaper then a new barrel.
Ive also considered changing the trigger but thats just for personal preference. I have changed out the optic as I found the Riton optic has a HUGE center dot. Not great for printing small groups.
Thoughts? I
 

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First question is what barrel came on the CZ ? Varmint ? Or one with a Match Chamber.

Lots of factory rifles do it with the right lot of ammo. I found in my rimfires one of the best things was a trigger job either a spring or replacement.

Lots of people on here have more experience with rimfire and tuners than I so I’ll stay away from that section for now. (I have a tuner but haven’t had a chance to use it!)

Also nice looking rifle.

B
 
bdb.hunting said:
First question is what barrel came on the CZ ? Varmint ? Or one with a Match Chamber.

Lots of factory rifles do it with the right lot of ammo. I found in my rimfires one of the best things was a trigger job either a spring or replacement.

Lots of people on here have more experience with rimfire and tuners than I so I’ll stay away from that section for now. (I have a tuner but haven’t had a chance to use it!)

Also nice looking rifle.

B
Click to expand...
Thanks,

the area 419 rail and bolt knob are a slick addition for sure.
 
Canadiankeeper said:
MTR match chamber

It was one of the tesro builds
https://www.tesro.ca/rifles-and-pis...olt-action-rimfire-rifle-22-lr-20-barrel.html

Runs about 1450, for 400 bucks more they put an IBI barrel on it. I figured it should be fine with the CZ match chamber heavy barrel would likely be ok.
Click to expand...
Yeah that chamber should shoot.

Have you tried any of the Lapua high end stuff ? I remember one of the guys I shot with a while back who had a CZ MTR said it loved the Lapua Centre X the most ? so maybe thats all your missing.

Also the action screw torque really tightened up groups on my T1X like you mentioned it might help.

B
 
A tuner isn't going to do much for you if the barrel has some flaws. For CZ especially, you'd need to inspect the chamber with a borescope to see how well the chamber was cut. If it has burrs hanging off the rifling from a dull reamer, it's a lost cause. If it passes chamber inspection, next evaluation would be slugging to determine bore diameter consistency. Any excessively tight or loose spots, also a lost cause. If all seems well, then it could be a candidate for a tuner. Don't expect miracles with crappy ammo, it'll still shoot like crappy ammo tuner or not. Give a selection of high grade ammo a try, if one of those ammos shows you performance like you got out of your Annie, then I'd say a tuner might be worth trying out. If a bunch of ammo and not one of them shows you potential, then you're better off going with a custom barrel.
 
here's my 5 cents...
well, for starters:
1/2 moa at 50 challenge
Click to expand...
That is not 1/2 moa challenge, but 1/2"

Then, my feedback on CZ457 MTR and a tuner:
Some time ago I bought this rifle, and switched to the unthreaded IBI barrel. And I was able to do 1/2" groups at 50yd with decent ammo like Eley Match, but no luck with cheaper ammo that I use for practice (Norma Tac22). Then after a while I decided to switch back to the original MTR barrel, and oh wow... did it shoot well! it was slightly better than what I had with IBI. And then I decided to put on a tuner. and on both of my cz457 mtr, the tuner made a noticeable difference. now I am able to print 1/2" groups at 50yd with Norma tac22, which is considered a cheap target grade ammo.

So, I vote for a tuner as I experienced not once, but twice that a tuner does improve groups.
Cheers
 
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Williwaw makes a good point about the barrel. A 20" barrel is typically less responsive to a tuner than one that's a little longer.

The ammo used is of great significance. Ammo that gives flyers or otherwise errant -- out-of-the-group -- shots can't be "cured" with a tuner. The ammo must be producing consistent results without a tuner.

Keep in mind that it's not a particular brand or variety of ammo that's important. Different lots of match ammo such as Tenex may easily perform differently.

One more point. Be aware that there are real limits on what a tuner can accomplish even when it's properly adjusted on a good barrel that responds well to a tuner and very good, consistent ammo is being used. Don't expect groups to shrink dramatically. Tuners aren't miracle working short cuts to better results. Those come with good ammo, a good barrel, and good shooting in good conditions.
 
Canadiankeeper said:
So I have gone out and dropped my CZ into a decent little set up. I guess I could have spent more and got a custom barrel but there are a lot of CZ s on the 1/2 moa at 50 challenge enough, figured I would save the $ out of the gate and give the stock barrel a try.

I have tested about 7 "types" of ammo,
SK Match,
Eley Club, biathalon, match, tennex.
Federal Match
CCI standard and HV.

Eley tennex seems to be the best, but it is still not laying one hole groups like my old Annie did.

I have not played w tension to the chassis, I need an extended bit for the MDT chassis.

I figured ill do that first, but Ive seen barrel turners and heard mixed reviews. Might be cheaper then a new barrel.
Ive also considered changing the trigger but thats just for personal preference. I have changed out the optic as I found the Riton optic has a HUGE center dot. Not great for printing small groups.
Thoughts? I
Click to expand...
A tuner won't fix issues with technique or your barrel, but if you have those things nailed down, it can help you squeeze a hundredth of an inch or two out of your groups. Just don't expect any miracles, and buy a half brick of ammo to dial it in.
 
Having tested seven different ammo's, and TENEX was the best.
Now find a supplier with sufficient stocks that you can test a number of different lots.
If you are lucky you may find TENEX between $25-30 per box.
When you find the lot that performs best . . . buy a case. This requires a very understanding supplier.
Put another way, after testing the various lots, did your supplier squirrel away a case each of the lots you tested.
These are all tall orders, and a case of TENEX will be at least $2500.00.
Now is when you might consider a tuner. In simple terms, a tuner may make good ammo better and it may make better ammo better.There are no magic fixes.
There are a number of tuners available. They all strive to create an optimal weighted barrel length by adding weight with clicks or revolutions.
Without a tuner you may find the ammunition your rifle really likes. It is a crap shoot and you may venture down a number of rabbit holes without ever finding a way out.
Which gets us back to something you said earlier . . . it is still not laying one hole groups like my old Annie did.
I strived to make a number of 22's work and eventually settled on Anschutz. Where is Annie Now?
 
A lot of shooters get tuners. What might be useful and revealing would be a thread in which posters can show their success with tuners or lack of it. I'd wager that many more shooters could post more about a lack of success than having achieved it.

Success of course would mean repeatable results, not just the one or two smaller groups at a certain setting that often is shown as "proof".
 
As with many devices . . . scopes, rifles and tuners . . . there is so much information available on the internet and by reading the instructions.
The number of people coming to the range with a new rifle and new scope but have never read the instruction manual and they need help.
The same in regards to tuners and mine is only one opinion.
First the rifle must be tested with a number of different ammunitions . . . brands and then lots within brands.
Testing the ammunition without a tuner is first but there is no sense adjusting a tuner with only one box of ammunition . . . you need a case!
That would be the case you bought after finding a lot number your rifle liked in the first instance.

TUNERS are not a matter of life or death . . . they are much more important than that.

One five shot group does not warrant buying a case. Five 10-shot groups might!

Listening to "grauhanen" and viewing his published groups makes sense . . . ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ . . . look up to previous posts!
 
If you're an experienced shooter and you've reached the point where the rifle just isn't capable of dong any better, try the tuner - why not?

If you're not an experienced shooter, your money is WAY better spent on a quality front rest, a better scope, and ammo for practice.

I have a tuner, and the jury's out still on whether it's making a difference or not ... I'm currently leaning towards "not" but hey I've only put a few hundred rounds down the pipe dialing it in. So at $300 for the tuner and most likely a brick of SK Red to dial it in, I will have paid $400 for groups that are likely about 0.010" smaller than they were before.

For me, that's worth the money, but for you it might not be.
 
Not every rifle or barrel is capable of being "tuned" with a barrel tuner. A tuner is not a good investment on a rifle that can't shoot good ammo well. For a tuner to work, a good rifle and barrel is needed and good, consistent ammo is required.

A tuner can't make an average rifle shoot above it's limits. A tuner can't make inconsistent ammo shoot like it's something else. No one should expect a tuner to make SK ammo shoot like it isn't entry level match ammo.
 
"Not every rifle or barrel is capable of being "tuned" with a barrel tuner. A tuner is not a good investment on a rifle that can't shoot good ammo well. For a tuner to work, a good rifle and barrel is needed and good, consistent ammo is required."

-This is True

"A tuner can't make an average rifle shoot above it's limits. A tuner can't make inconsistent ammo shoot like it's something else. No one should expect a tuner to make SK ammo shoot like it isn't entry level match ammo."

-This is not exactly true. An entry level target/benchrest rifle like a CZ or an average target rifle like a Win 52, a Valmet Lion, a low-end Anschutz, etc. can benefit from a well set up tuner, even with cheaper SK Red ammo. Grauhanen is right in that the tuner won't fix the fliers, but it can tighten your groups up a little bit. And by a bit, I mean the calipers will pick up the difference - your eye probably won't.

If you shoot score, you may squeeze a couple extra Xs out, but it won't fix the 9s and sloppy 10s - those are the ammo, barrel and shooter's fault.
 
Canuck65, if you have the evidence that a factory rifle like a CZ or a Tikka or a 64 Anschutz can show improvement with SK RM (or any SK ammo) please direct readers to it or post the information. Many readers would like to see it. Keep in mind that one or a few smaller groups at a particular setting doesn't qualify. To be taken seriously successful tuner results requires evidence that's repeatable.

In the absence of such evidence, readers can take it that a tuner won't work reliably with ammo that's not consistently consistent. It's a rare lot of SK that meets that requirement.
 
Canuck65 said:
"Not every rifle or barrel is capable of being "tuned" with a barrel tuner. A tuner is not a good investment on a rifle that can't shoot good ammo well. For a tuner to work, a good rifle and barrel is needed and good, consistent ammo is required."

-This is True

"A tuner can't make an average rifle shoot above it's limits. A tuner can't make inconsistent ammo shoot like it's something else. No one should expect a tuner to make SK ammo shoot like it isn't entry level match ammo."

-This is not exactly true. An entry level target/benchrest rifle like a CZ or an average target rifle like a Win 52, a Valmet Lion, a low-end Anschutz, etc. can benefit from a well set up tuner, even with cheaper SK Red ammo. Grauhanen is right in that the tuner won't fix the fliers, but it can tighten your groups up a little bit. And by a bit, I mean the calipers will pick up the difference - your eye probably won't.

If you shoot score, you may squeeze a couple extra Xs out, but it won't fix the 9s and sloppy 10s - those are the ammo, barrel and shooter's fault.
Click to expand...
I'd bet a tuner on a 64 with SK RM is all just in your head that it's better.
 
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