RO's who cheat

One of the competitors who has filed a complaint reports he has been told the RO in question has had his RO status revoked pending further investigations by USPSA. From the info posted it would appear from video evidence problems first surface in 2011 and run through 2013. Very unfortunate for all concerned. USPSA will deal with it. I have never been to an IPSC match club or Qualifier where the RO did not allow the Scorekeeper to read and call out the time confirmed by RO or the reverse procedure. Not that it matters much. I score my matches by the fun I have and how badly I screw up stages. I do well at both. :>)

Bob
 
Whether or not RO's have done it on purpose we all know that timers can get bumped against stuff, or empty casings fly and hit them, or even loaded rounds at the UASC command and change the time. It's always worth it to ask to see the timer and on the better timers you can see the split from the previous shot.
 
Hate to link to another forum, but this is more than just bumping the timer

http://doodieproject.invisionzone.c...uge-uspsa-cheating-scandal/page-35#entry35772



2014 SC Section Match


stage 1 – announced time 20.95; I-phone 22.85
stage 5 – announced time 20.77; I-phone 22.78
stage 7 – announced time 11.79; I-phone 12.72

2014 VA/MD Section Match


Stage 3 – announced time 15.31; I-phone 16.31
Stage 4 – announced time 19.56; I-phone 20.68
Stage 5 – announced time 20.59; I-phone 23.56
Stage 9 – announced time 20.07; I-phone 22.19


April 2014 Sir Walter Gun Club Monthly Match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLu0S1OyvRc
stage 6 – announced time 15.40; I-phone 16.46

2013 Toys for Tots Match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r69A0sMDjJk
Stage 1 – announced time 14.45; I-phone 15.50
Stage 2 – announced time 15.09; I-phone 16.19
Stage 3 – announced time 19.17; I-phone 20.30
Stage 4 – announced time 18.03; I-phone 20.12
Stage 5 – announced time 13.62; I-phone 15.60
Stage 7 – announced time 8.09; I-phone 8.58

September 2013 Sir Walter Gun Club Monthly Match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcr2f-VvkLM
Stage 3 – announced time 14.08; I-phone 15.70

2013 Area 8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrqPWFraBP0
Stage 5 – announced time 22.33; I-phone 24.37
Stage 7 – recorded time 30.05; I-phone 32.03
Stage 8 – recorded time 20.07; I-phone 25.56
Stage 9 – announced time 17.08; I-phone 19.13
Stage 10 – announced time 15.07; I-phone 18.94 (FTE procedural not called)
Stage 1 – announced time 20.09; I-phone 22.28
Stage 2 – correct time announced … Scott Gaskins was the RO
Stage 4 – string 1 – announced time 7.69; I-phone 8.72
Stage 4 – string 2 – announced time 8.15; I-phone 9.19
Stage 3 – announced time 13.08; I-phone 15.96
Stage 6 – announced time 16.04; I-phone 16.40

2013 SC Section Match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-ejIAaijl0
Stage 3 – announced time 20.44; I-phone 22.19

2013 VA/MD Section Match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RthQDt1jpwc
Stage 1 – announced time 10.58; I-phone 12.66
Stage 3 – announced time 14.39; I-phone 15.50
Stage 7 – announced time 20.41; I-phone 22.59
Stage 9 – announced time 17.36; I-phone 19.30

2012 Area 8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQtESzmXA9c
Stage 4 – announced time 9.01; I-phone 9.91

2012 SC Section Match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnutzuRVhE
Stage 1 – recorded time 19.97; I-phone 21.53
Stage 6 – recorded time 17.97; I-phone 19.03
Stage 7 – announced time 17.82 (recorded time 17.92); I-phone 18.84
Stage 8 – announced time 18.89; I-phone19.82
Stage 10 – announced time 14.04; I-phone 14.56

2012 Toys for Tots match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQrh2mzxQkU
Stage 3 – announced time 12.62; I-phone 14.60
Stage 6 – recorded time 11.89; I-phone 12.97
Stage 7 – announced time 15.76; I-phone 17.78

2012 VA/MD Section Match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdxl70ZT5Lg
Stage 5 – announced time 20.98; I-phone 22.79

2011 VA/MD Section Match Stage 9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSrSuL3cmbA
Announced time 16.36; I-phone 17.34

2011 SC Section Match Stage 9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux2ubu7jar4
Announced time 18.78; I-phone 19.85

2011 SC Section Match Stage 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYBqQPRGv78
Recorded time 23.19; I-phone 25.32
 
I hope they've got that guy on suicide watch, this kind of public shaming and possible meltdown are often precursors to bad things happening. And as ####ty as it is, it isn't worth a life.

HB, i should have framed my response better, I was just listing other things that can happen by accident, let alone on purpose. My personal beef is with RO's who wear the timer on a neck lanyard and it flops around banging into their belt or necklaces, I've more than once asked for a review and gotten my time changed because it showed a few seconds between last shot and 2nd last shot when I doubled a close target as a final target. It hasn't happened in years, but it has happened.
 
Those are not very reliable. Sometimes the shots don't get beamed. They are handy for the squad to see but the handheld timer must be used to record the score.
I was at a match a couple of weeks ago where the scorekeeper failed to record the time. The officials on site suggested making up an average time and using that. I pointed out we have a clear rule in the rule book on how to deal with that and the shooter was zero'd
 
I make it a habit to show the timer to the scorekeeper, or at least point the display in his direction while calling out the time, so that he has an opportunity to verify it.
 
Slavex said:
I hope they've got that guy on suicide watch, this kind of public shaming and possible meltdown are often precursors to bad things happening. And as ####ty as it is, it isn't worth a life.

HB, i should have framed my response better, I was just listing other things that can happen by accident, let alone on purpose. My personal beef is with RO's who wear the timer on a neck lanyard and it flops around banging into their belt or necklaces, I've more than once asked for a review and gotten my time changed because it showed a few seconds between last shot and 2nd last shot when I doubled a close target as a final target. It hasn't happened in years, but it has happened.
Click to expand...

I always hold the timer up in one hand. Over the years, I've had several critics ask me, "What are you going to do if something happens? You don't have both hands free." and my response was always, "I'll drop the timer if I have to. It's only a timer." I've never agreed when they suggest the neck lanyard.

Once I've issued the command "If you are finished, unload and show clear" (as opposed to once the shooter has finished shooting), I hold the timer behind my back so the scorer can see it, also protecting timer from accidentally being struck by ejected bullet.

That seems to be the best practice that I've seen from RO's all over the place. I've been asked by the shooter to see the timer on a few occasions, but rarely, and I don't see a problem with showing the timer to the shooter, or letting them review shots.
 
667 said:
Click to expand...

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:p

Seriously, though, in our small local group most everyone gets a chance to take score. And on top of that, the shooter has every opportunity to take a look at the timer. You do what you can, and ultimately, you have to trust somebody in the mix. Otherwise you wouldn't be involved in action shooting sports at all.
 
If you watch the videos he holds the timer close enough to his body that nobody can see it. I have yet to see an RO/SO do anything other than to allow the scorekeeper to see the timer. Heck it just speeds up the process and allow the scorer to get the time as the ULASC is going on. Once done, the RO/SO calls the time and the scorer confirms it. Slavex makes a very good point. Obviously something is going on with the guy or maybe guys. Hendrix is a retired cop and been in the sport since 1988 so one would assume he is taking this fall pretty hard or you would expect him to be. It will be interesting how this all plays out. This is obviously a human tragedy that is not going to go down well no matter how it plays out.

Take Care

Bob
 
hungrybeagle said:
I always hold the timer up in one hand. Over the years, I've had several critics ask me, "What are you going to do if something happens? You don't have both hands free." and my response was always, "I'll drop the timer if I have to. It's only a timer." I've never agreed when they suggest the neck lanyard.

Once I've issued the command "If you are finished, unload and show clear" (as opposed to once the shooter has finished shooting), I hold the timer behind my back so the scorer can see it, also protecting timer from accidentally being struck by ejected bullet.

That seems to be the best practice that I've seen from RO's all over the place. I've been asked by the shooter to see the timer on a few occasions, but rarely, and I don't see a problem with showing the timer to the shooter, or letting them review shots.
Click to expand...

Agreed a very good best practice and the one I generally see at matches.

Sosa
 
CV32 said:
Seriously, though, in our small local group most everyone gets a chance to take score. And on top of that, the shooter has every opportunity to take a look at the timer. You do what you can, and ultimately, you have to trust somebody in the mix. Otherwise you wouldn't be involved in action shooting sports at all.
Click to expand...

That's funny. Most im my club's group don't want to learn how to score. They come out and shoot because it's fun.

As others do, I move the timer out behind me as the active shooter unloads and shows clear, screen facing the scorer. Scorer taps my extended arm to say he has the time. I then look and tell the shooter the time if he cares...
 
It seems to me from my experience at most small clubs be they IPSC or IDPA the scoring is more or less an afterthought to the important part and that is having fun with our friends. It gets a bit more serious at Qualifiers and Sanctioned Matches but not by much, for most, from what I have seen. "You won? Great! wanna pop?".

Bob
 
Madness said:
Just remember who broke this and where the evidence is coming together, vive la Doodie!
Click to expand...

Sure...and maybe we can talk to them (you) about their definition of "scandal" :cool:

If this was widespread, if multiple RO's and scorekeepers were involved, if the BOD knew and turned a blind eye...scandal.

Some fat #### from the back 40...taking it upon himself to cheat...not a scandal. Bad, embarrasing, unsportsmanlike...yes...scandal...not even close :rolleyes:
 
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