Ross 1910 bolt problem need help!

[fredqc]

HI,

i have a neighbor that has a very nice commercial ross 1910 in .280, but the bolt is stuck for about 30 years! I have took a look a it today, but impossible to do anything... i have removed the rear sight to have a better look. I have also tried to disassemble the bolt, but no luck. I dont know how someone could put the bolt that bad. THe bolt is stuck uncocked halfway. Any idea?

Thanks, Fred

 

[tokguy]

Better help than I will be along soon.
Smellie, Buffdog? Bolt repair advice, STAT!

 

[tiriaq]

Take the barrelled action out of the stock. Remove the trigger mechanism. Tap the bolt handle back. (Block of wood + hammer).
I've seen a few 1910s jammed like this. The bolt assembly will come out.

 

[fredqc]

thanks. I was thinking it would come to the hammer and wood... I cant remove the action from the wood because there is a screw that i cant reach under the bolt... is it best to tap on the bolt handle or on the bolthead?

 

[smellie]

Buffdog is here with me right now.

Use a quarter-inch solid brass rod (get from machine shop), all the way from the muzzle to the bolt-face. Lube hell out of the critter, then TAP the brass rod smartly. The Bolt should then come out of the rifle.

THE BOLT WILL COME OUT IN AN UNSAFE POSITION!!!!!!!

Your Extractor is missing, as is the (Rear) Receiver Bridge and its four tiny screws. Do you have these parts?

READ UP on the assembly of the 1910 Ross bolt. REMEMBER: this is the one they had the trouble with but, if you put it together right, it CAN'T get out of whack by itself.

Strip the Bolt and clean, then assemble. It will be easy to assemble this WRONG, so you DO THAT AND THEN MAKE THE CORRECTION. Install the Extractor. Insert the Bolt into the Boltway, lock in place with the Bolt Release and work it back and forth a couple of times. You should be able to SEE the lugs as they begin their turn. Proper distance between the Bolt Body and the Rear Locking Lug should be ONE INCH (25mm).

If you have it at that measurement, then the rifle is safe.

Hope this helps.
.
.
Buffdog suggests you try the SEARCH for Ross bolt problems. He has, several times, posted pictures of the proper and IMproper assembly of the Bolt.
.
.

 

[cantom]

Since the bolt head is fully exposed from the top...I'd think a block of hardwood could be used to tap back on it. But I'd be afraid of doing damage to the rifle in the trigger group area by pounding it back with the bolt head in that position.

 

[buffdog]

.
Just looked at this one. I was visiting with SMELLIE this afternoon, and he discussed it with me.

The exposed firing pin is a big clue on this one. The bolt has been assembled wrong, and has been put into the rifle that way. As SMELLIE says, lubricate the area where the bolt is in the back of the receiver, particularly the slots and rails where the carrier is.

The 1910 Ross trigger mechanism acts as a sort of pivoted piece, with the back end being the sear, and the front end having a spring loaded piece to help keep the bolt carrier / bolt assembly forward. When the trigger is pulled, the sear goes down and this small "catch" comes upwards. I can not really tell too much from the photos, but it looks like your trigger is a bit too far towards the rear. If this is the case, and it could be if someone pulled the trigger while attempting to hit backwards on the bolt, the rear of the locking lugs are jammed by this "catch."

When hitting the bolt, do NOT use a steel hammer directly on the bolt. DO NOT HIT THE BOLT HANDLE ITSELF, AS IT CAN TWIST AND JAM THE BOLT, POSSIBLY GETTING IT EVEN MORE OUT OF LINE.

Lube the bolt area as outlined. At this point, it is wise to have a friend with and extra set of hands available. If the bolt is jammed on the catch, you are going to have to take a block of hardwood as a "punch like tool" and hit the back of the bolt firing pin assembly (the main body part, not the bolt handle,) so that it can go FORWARD about 1/16 inch or so. This will free up the catch. Then try the brass rod inside the bore and attempt to hit the bolt backwards.

As CANTOM suggests, it might be possible to use a longer piece of hardwood to hit the bolt head backwards, but if you do this, you are hitting at an angle, and not straight back. Have your friend hold the rifle securely as you are doing this.

Even with all this, it is possible that some damage will occur to the "catch" and the trigger assembly. Whatever you do, once you have the "catch" loose, do NOT pull the trigger as it will only jam up again. Once the bolt head is back near the rear of the receiver however, it might need to have the trigger pulled so that the sear goes down and allow the bolt to be fully removed.

Of course, you could also take it to a Gunsmith who knows something about the Ross system.

You must then assemble the bolt CORRECTLY.
.

 

[fredqc]

Thanks all for the help. Because the rifle is not mine, i will ask my neighbor what he would like to do with it. He is considering selling is collection, so maybe he will try to sell it like that to someone thta could fix it. I will keep you informed!

Thanks again, Fred

 

[svt1940]

Ross M1910 bolt disassembly.

That thread make me play with my Ross 1910, long time i didn't took the bolt appart so let's see with pics. The bolt is removed from the rifle after pivoting the bolt release . When the bolt is withdraw from the rifle, the bolt head will likely turn in locked position since its on main spring pressure.

The extractor is removed by prying it to disengage from the bolt head and slided away from the bolt.

The cocking piece must be unlocked from the firing pin.

At the end of firing pin, there's a small hole. A small object(a little screwdriver,punch,nail) is inserted so the firing pin/cocking piece can be pulled to expose the firing pin lock pin.

The locking pin is pushed and the cocking piece is removed(after removal of the small object previously inserted in the hole at the end of the firing pin)

The bolt head assembly is pulled from bolt body.

The firing pin retainer must be unscrewed from bolt head body, an adjustable wrench work fine.

There's a small lock ring against the main spring.

The lock ring have 2 dimples that mesh with notches on the firing pin retainer.

Also, the lock ring have a small tab that mesh with a keyway like in the bolt head sleeve.

To remove safety, rotate straight up and pull to the right.

Remove the safety plunger and spring from the bolt body.

Bolt disassembled.

Reassemble in reverse order,BUT, the bolt head must be assembled correctly in the bolt body, otherwise, the locking lugs wont engage in the recess in the receiver and since the rifle will fire even with an unlocked bolt, the bolt will be pushed back upon firing with possible injuries to the shooter.

To reassemble bolt head.
Engage the bolt head in the bolt body, meshing the cuts until the head is seated completely in the bolt body.

The next 2 pics show the bolt head assembled INCORRECTLY!

On pic above, the head is fully seated but the lockings lugs are in horizontal position, unlocked. If the bolt is assembled in the rifle that way, even pushed fully foward, the head will not lock in receiver, causing an hazardous situation. Never assemble a bolt this way in a M1910 Ross!

On the bottom pic, the head is seated but again in unlocked position and also upside down and cant be inserted in rifle,also the extractor cant be assembled in this position.

The next pic is a correctly assembled bolt head. The head is fully seated and the locking lugs are in locked position, vertically. Now the remaining parts can be reassembled.

Reassemble the cocking piece by inserting in the bolt. Again a small object is inserted through the hole at the end of firing pin to pull it back along with the cocking piece so the firing pin lockpin can be put in place.

The firing pin is notched to recieve the lock pin.

Extractor is put back in place.

Before reinserting the bolt in the rifle, the head must be pulled in unlocked position. Pulling on the head will turn it clockwise(if viewed from behind) about ¼ turn.

In unlocked position, there's a distance of about 1 (.935 exactly) inch between the back of locking lugs and the bolt body.

The bolt is ready to be installed in the rifle.

When installed correctly, we can see the bolt head turning in locked position as the bolt is pushed foward.(on the pics,the extractor is removed for clarity)

I hope this tutoral will be useful. Thankyou for looking.
Joce

 

[tiriaq]

Oops. The last one brought to me in this condition was a barrelled action.
The jammed bolt is created when someone forces the bolt into the rifle with the bolt in locked position in its sleeve. The bolt has snapped back into the sleeve, rather than being extended out. To go into the rifle, the lugs must be horizontal, not vertical (on a 1910 action).
With the lugs vertical, and the bolt back into the sleeve, it is in locked position, not the unsafe position. Unsafe is when the bolt is back into the sleeve, but the lugs are horizontal.
It is going to take a bit of force to remove the bolt assembly from the receiver.
Once the bolt assembly is removed from the rifle, pull then bolt foreward out of its sleeve, and turn until the lugs are horizontal. It will likely have to be held this way until the asswembly is run into the receiver.
Did someone remove the extractor in an attempt to get the bolt assembly out?

 

[fredqc]

Hi,
yes i have removed the extractor in an attempt to try to disassemble it, but the bolthead need to rotate to get out of the bolt assembly, so it is not working...

 

[tiriaq]

The only way you can rotate the bolt is if you could pull it foreward, out from the sleeve, rotating it until the lugs are horizontal. Doubt that you will be able to do that with the assembly jammed into the receiver. Try it, see if you can pull the bolt foreward, against the spring, but I doubt if it will move.
The bolt assembly has to come back and out. It was forced in, with the bolt in locked position. It has got to come back out the way it went in.
Just to clarify. Bolt = the part with the locking lugs. Sleeve = the part with the handle.

 

[fredqc]

i just did it!

I left the bolt partly disassembled (cocking piece and pin removed). I then tried to push the bolt forward like suggested. It worked and went fully forward. The bolt had now enough space to open a little bit more. With the help of a rubber mallet, the bolt and sleeve finally separated and i didnt had to pull the bolt backward, just the sleeve.

The bolt was incorrectly assembled, so i had to reassemble with the help of Joce post. Great job! I think his instruction should go as a sticky in a new tread.

The neighbor is happy. I hope he will sell me his no4 T soon....

Thanks to all for your help!!

Fred