Ross MkIII Bolt Question *with pics*

[Desert_Fox]

I just acquired another Ross M10 (MkIII).

Please excuse the poor quality of the photos, they were taken with my dusty old Blackberry...

This one is CRB marked with a CRB marked bolt, albeit the serial on the receiver does not match the bolt serial.

This one has been sporterized with a cut down and lathed barrel, but it is a nicer sporter job than my other Ross. It still retains the top handguard, sling band, both sling swivels and the Flip up Ross sight and stripper clip guide.

(My other Sportered Ross was missing all of these items).

This Ross, along with my other one has the classic "pink eraser" buttpad installed and the steel buttplate removed...

Both stocks have been sanded of any markings and varnished.

I was disassembling my newest Ross when I inspected the locking lugs on the bolt....

The left rear 2 locking lugs seem to be "chipped"!!!
I did not notice this until I had actually taken the rifle home.

This bolt is unpinned, but it is assembled correctly, and it appears to function fine without live rounds...

*This is the bolt loaded into a Deactivated action*

Should this bolt be turned into parts? Or is it still safe to fire? Is it possible to acquire a new bolt head/locking lugs?

The other Ross bolt I have is in much better condition, and as long as it headspaces OK, I could probably use it in this new Ross too. Alas, this not an ideal situation.

I bought this newest Ross off of an older gentleman who informed me that his father took many deer with it... (It is definitely dirty enough to have been a field used rifle).

All comments and suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[cosmic]

I cant see from the pics - does it look like a fracture? If it is, the major concern is uneven loading of the bolt lugs caused by a dimensional fault in the receiver lugs. Time to get the engineers blue out.... There was a bolt for sale on the EE recently.

 

[Desert_Fox]

It's hard to tell if it a fracture or not...

I am not sure I know what the difference between a fracture and a chip is...

I felt the chipped lugs. They have been worn smooth, almost as if they have been filed.

The bolt still works and locks fine.... I just don't know if that is 49,000 PSI fine...

Almost tempted to try tying it to a tree and hiding behind a pile of dirt with a string attached to the trigger...

Then again, it might be easier to just buy a new bolt or parts....

 

[tiriaq]

I would replace the bolthead.

 

[smellie]

Replacing the bolthead is definitely more sensible than scrapping an entire bolt. They are getting darned hard to find these days, but there are still a few factory-new boltheads floating around: there were lots and lots of extras made up, back when people were doing silly things to Rosses rather than respecting them.

Good luck!
.

 

[buffdog]

Replace the bolt head. Also, check the magazine cut-off lever on the left rear of the receiver to see if it is an early (smaller diameter) version. This damage could have been caused by slamming the bolt back with a lot of force.

Also, some bolt heads were given questionable heat treating in England. If done wrong, it can make them a bit brittle.

There was some speculation on the CRB markings on the Ross Rifles. We believe we have identified the PLY markings as rifles used by the Royal Marines in Plymouth, England. The Royal Marines Museum at Plymouth, England, tends to agree with this. Two other markings on the Ross have been found....CRB and PHAB.

It is believed that most of the Ross rifles that were converted to Factory Sporters in England came from Naval stores. The Army Ross rifles were mostly sent to Russia and the Baltic Countries. We have positive examination of two of these sporterized, one owned by SMELLIE has the PLY markings on it, and my rifle has the CRB markings on it. Both of these sporterized rifles could be twins, and were quite obviously sporterized by the same factory in England.

Although not actually proven, the best explanation of the CRB markings is the CROMBIE Naval and Royal Marines Depot, and the PHAB is PRIDDIES HARD, a Naval Depot and Arsenal servicing Rosyth. Our thanks to friends in Australia for providing the documents on this.

.

 

[Desert_Fox]

Thanks for all the info guys!

YUP!!!!

Just checked it, the magazine cut off lever has been mashed... definitely looks like that was what caused the lugs to chip!

Thanks buffdog!

Well, it's off to the Parts EE to find a bolt head I go, hi ho, hi ho....

PM me if any of you can steer me in the correct direction.

Cheers!
Prost!

Sláinte!

Happy St. Patricks Day!

 

[zywina]

Bufdog been wondering for 6 months now what CRB stood for, looked threw friends proofmark books, military books of all sorts, with real no awnser! Appreciate this tid bit! My gun must be the same as yours as barrel had been shortened with using original front sight block, looks real nice! Want to maybe restore mine as it was a gift from a friend! cheers dale Z!

 

[buffdog]

Sporterized Ross Rifles

Here are two Ross M-10 Rifles that were sporterized by a Gunmaker or Factory in England. There were approximately 30,000 on the Weedon List and it is speculated that most of these were declared as Surplus, and sold to the "Trade".

The top rifle is marked with PLY on the receiver ring. The bottom rifle is marked with CRB on the receiver ring and the bolt. Note that two identical screws have been added to the barrel for an open rear sight, and the wood is identical.
.

 

[Ax.338]

Sporterized Ross Rifles

I`ve been wondering about the screw that is added to the barrels of these rifles since I saw them a while back. Could they be for the front mount for the Winchester A5 scope used on a number of these rifles by snipers in WWI ? Could you post a shot showing these from the top? How far centre to centre from rear site bridge?

 

[smellie]

Not sure about the Winchester A5 on these rifles, but I am pretty darned sure that they weren't making Allen-head cap-screws until after the end of the Second War.

The big problem with ALL of these is that the barrels have been shortened..... and there just hain't no new bar'ls at all running around in the woods. What we are left with are what the Ross factory would have called "heavy-barrel sporters" had they manufactured such... and they can be shockingly accurate if you feed them what they want.

So we are left with basically sporting rifles which have had a long and colourful history, doing anti-submarine duty, torpedo-boat duty, guarding naval installations and shipped aboard racks on ships to all parts of the world. The ones which served longest and returned home and were sold off last, are the sources for these rifles; there haven't been any new releases (apart from the 225 from Chile) since these hit the market. They deserve our respect.... and they deserve to be shot with the BEST ammunition we can turn out in our basements.

'Nuff said.
.

 

[buffdog]

Sight screws on barrels

I do not think that these holes were for mounting the Winchester A5 scope for a sniper rifle. There are no corresponding holes on the receiver ring for the rear scope mount, and the rifle used by Private Riel in a Winnipeg museum has the rear scope base mounted on the receiver ring.

.

 

[Ax.338]

Sight screws on barrels

It was worth a shot. If I knew they were Allen screws I wouldn`t even have asked.
It seems that the A5 was mounted a couple of different ways from what I can see in period photos. Most use a mount on the receiver ring as you say.
There was no set pattern for mounting these as they were not standard issue and mounted by armourers in the field.
Does anybody know where the Pte. Riel rifle is now? (It used to be in the Manitoba Museum of War) It would be interesting to see exactly how the scope was mounted.

My first Ross looks a lot like the ones you have here. It`s still the one I shoot the most. Sweet shooting gun.

 

[Desert_Fox]

Well, I got the parts I needed, plus some, and there is another Ross out there in shooting condition again!

I took the damaged bolt stop and filed down the mashed ridges that had been made by the previous owner, and tested for fit and function, and it works great! It is actually a bit larger than my other 3 bolt stops, so a little filing didn't affect it at all.

I then took my damaged bolt, disassembled it completely and switched out the damaged bolt head for a new one in great condition. I gave the bolt a good scrub and dub while I was at it!

I also noticed that I couldn't strip any rounds into the magazine from a charger and discovered that the rear of the magazine had been bent forward... So a little elbow grease, a screwdriver and a hammer, and that was fixed in no time!

She now runs like a top!

Thanks to all for the help, directions, suggestions, offers, and parts so that I could continue to make a piece of Canadiana shine again!