Ross problem

JTF#

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 99.5%
217   1   0
Location
Ontario
i have a problem with my Mk III Ross.
i can shoot it about 10 times then the trigger locks up and wont pull. it you take the round out it will pull but if its got a round in it it will not pull. also if i take it home and clean it. it will work next trip at the range but locks up on about the 10th round. every time.
any ideas? i was thinking maybe the heat?
 
Ok, long distance detective work time.

1) Can you define trigger locking up? IE trigger is rock solid and won't move, trigger grates and wiggles a bit but doesn't do anything, trigger flops around and nothing fires, trigger moves as it should but nothing happens, trigger is under tension from bolt but seems jammed etc? Does the action jam shut, or does it continue to work properly with the trigger jammed? Does the trigger work with the bolt out?
2) How fast are you shooting these 10 rounds?
3) Does this tenth round trigger lockup occur only when firing live ammo, or can you cause it to happen from dry firing as well (IE 10 or 50 times in a row)?
4) Is your bolt head/sleeve going fully into battery?
5) When you pull the trigger, does the bolt sleeve move forward at all, either dry firing or live firing?
5A) does this change over time? IE does it begin to move forward as the trigger is pulled after you've fired for a while?
6) Have you extensively cleaned the bolt, trigger group, and inside of the receiver with solvents or very hot soapy water until it comes out clean?
7) Is the safety engaging itself, or dirt in the safety engaging the bolt? Are there any shiny points of wear that're clearly occuring while you're firing?

My thoughts are:
1) The more info we have on the trigger's behavior the more we'll have an idea of what's going on. At this stage there's not enough info to know if the trigger is even the cause, or if it's the only problem. Info here will help.

2) If you're shooting very fast (10rds in 10 seconds or less), then it could be heat, but doesn't explain why this' happening. If you're shooting slowly, or are able to keep your hand against the receiver ring, there's not much chance it's heat expansion (but could be related to #5 and old oils gumming things up). Heat shouldn't directly affect the trigger group so far back without pretty extreme heat at the chamber (think wood on fire, rounds cooking off in the chamber) but may be causing the bolt head to not fully rotate, which in turn is not allowing the gun to fire properly - if it's jammed then the head wouldn't lock on the trigger pull, the bolt sleeve wouldn't travel forward and the trigger would appear to do nothing. See #1 for whether this could be a factor.


3) If the trigger jam occurs only with live ammo I'd think something's working its way free under recoil, or from the trigger moving. If it also occurs while dry firing at all, then similar issue but caused by the trigger moving rather than recoil. This will also help establish if heat is an issue.

4) If the bolt/head isn't going fully into battery, this could be a factor. Should be pretty evident, but might not be.

5) Related to #4

5A) If the bolt begins to stop earlier and earlier, especially when firing live ammo, then it could be tight tolerances and heat expansion, or dirt/grime/old grease liquifying and gluing to the bolt.

6) If the gun has not been heavily cleaned, due to the complexity of the action, these issues may just be caused by a chunk of hardened grease, or liquifying/solidifying grease on the bearing surfaces within the receiver ring. The tight tolerances of the Ross are more prone to seizing up from gummy environments than others. Locking surfaces can always be prone to this, especially when they're wide. Strong solvents or very hot soapy water work best for this, along with a good small stiff brush to really get inside parts. Culprits may include: The inside of the receiver ring locking surfaces and areas of bolt head travel; inside of bolt sleeve, outside of bolt head, inside of bolt head firing pin recess; inside of safety; all of the trigger group. Hot water and soap works great but beware of flash rust.

7) Bright spots may indicate a rub or wear point, or point of failure that is causing the issue. Once the gun is clean use a sharpie marker to cover them all and work the action a couple times while dry firing. Check to see if any appear. Do the same while live firing, then when the problem appears, check the rub marks again. I'm thinking of issues like a pin migrating under recoil, that weird football shaped retention ball in the bolt, the safety engaging the bolt, the trigger roller bearing seizing or jamming up etc.


Anyways, that's what I would check to begin with, before looking for more exotic issues. Anything that's worn, loose, wobbly, grates when moved or not consistent in its movement is suspect as far as defective parts. HD video of the whole action while shooting including the moment it jams would help.
 
I have a Ross Mk III. If you're near Elmira, bring your Ross over and I'll take a look at it. I can't guarantee anything, but you'll at least get to meet a fellow Gun Nut !
 
for H wally
this so far is what i can tell you. trigger locks up and does not move when you pull it its like solid in place. eject the round and it will dry fire no problem. bolt in or out.

1) Can you define trigger locking up? IE trigger is rock solid and won't move, trigger grates and wiggles a bit but doesn't do anything, trigger flops around and nothing fires, trigger moves as it should but nothing happens, trigger is under tension from bolt but seems jammed etc? Does the action jam shut, or does it continue to work properly with the trigger jammed? Does the trigger work with the bolt out?

maybe one a minute or two 2) How fast are you shooting these 10 rounds?

only tried with live 3) Does this tenth round trigger lockup occur only when firing live ammo, or can you cause it to happen from dry firing as well (IE 10 or 50 times in a row)?

as far as i can tell yes 4) Is your bolt head/sleeve going fully into battery?

not that i can tell 5) When you pull the trigger, does the bolt sleeve move forward at all, either dry firing or live firing?
5A) does this change over time? IE does it begin to move forward as the trigger is pulled after you've fired for a while?

yes every time i do6) Have you extensively cleaned the bolt, trigger group, and inside of the receiver with solvents or very hot soapy water until it comes out clean?

i dont think so but i will check next time7) Is the safety engaging itself, or dirt in the safety engaging the bolt? Are there any shiny points of wear that're clearly occuring while you're firing?
 
Interesting.

So it will dry fire bolt in/out no problem after jamming, but if a round is reinserted it continues to jam. That is an interesting little problem. I'm going to look at one of my rosses again and see if I can't come up with a solution.
 
exactly.

also i have used a mix of Canadian military MK7 ammo and Remington soft points. so ammo does not make a difference.
 
Going out on a limb here but is the ammo in the proper dimensions for your Ross? I don't have one but it almost sounds like a out of battery safety at work, and possibly either due to the chamber being dirty or the rounds being too long they aren't allowing the bolt to fully engage in battery.
 
exactly.

also i have used a mix of Canadian military MK7 ammo and Remington soft points. so ammo does not make a difference.

I was thinking ammo too but I guess not. It sounds like the bolt isn't fully in battery and the disconnector is not allowing it to fire. Like having a headspace gauge in there.

But Rosses tend to have generous chamber dimensions.

It would be nice to be able to try a different bolt assembly in the rifle to see if the problem goes away.

Presumably the bolt is assembled correctly? Rule of thumb?
 
Going out on a limb here but is the ammo in the proper dimensions for your Ross? I don't have one but it almost sounds like a out of battery safety at work, and possibly either due to the chamber being dirty or the rounds being too long they aren't allowing the bolt to fully engage in battery.

This
 
Funny thing is, this is the reputation Rosses got saddled with...jamming, not firing, jamming when hot etc.

The story is, it was largely the out of spec, defective Brit ammo they issued to us (while keeping our superb Ross ammo for their own purposes) that caused a lot of the problems.

BTW, is there any sign of deformed, bent or damaged locking lugs on the bolt? The rear lug was getting bent with the original bolt stops, which also led to many problems.

I'd be really curious to see if swapping the bolt out with another one would sort this out.


i have a problem with my Mk III Ross.
i can shoot it about 10 times then the trigger locks up and wont pull. it you take the round out it will pull but if its got a round in it it will not pull. also if i take it home and clean it. it will work next trip at the range but locks up on about the 10th round. every time.
any ideas? i was thinking maybe the heat?
 
Last edited:
Is the bolt sleeve fully forward when it jams? If your bolt is not original to the rifle or has a damaged lug from the smaller pattern bolt stop, I'm wondering if after those 7-8 rounds when things have got a bit warmer, the bolt might not be rotating fully into battery due to the damaged lug or thread as we might call it. If the bolt sleeve does not move all the way forward, the two lugs on the underside of the sleeve that are normally forward of the locking cam, might be too far to the rear and the locking cam might come up and hit them instead of going behind them, allowing very little if any trigger movement. In the normal position this prevent the sleeve moving backwards and the bolt unlocking, when the trigger is pulled.

The locking cam is the piece at the very top in this photo from the EE,

IMG_7262_zpshssamkno.jpg
 
Last edited:
Bolt lugs appear to be in very good condition. I have a few that are in rougher shape than yours but have never had any issues of the type you have described. Watching this thread with interest.
 
I brightened up your second photo and there looks to be a bit of a mark from the bolt stop hitting, but it doesn't look noticeable enough to cause any jamming. If the cartridge case is not seating fully, that might also prevent the bolt from going fully into battery and thereby allowing the locking cam to engage. How does the chamber look especially at the mouth? What ammo do you have this problem with?
 
Back
Top Bottom