Ross Range Report

bobv

bobv

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Yesterday I took my Ross MKII ( 1905) to the gun club to try it out , I picked the wrong day -27C with the wind chill :( , anyway I got to shoot 20 shots , the rifle is very smooth to operate but the rear sights kept moving up with the recoil.I found this out after the first 2 shots , I was off the target and the rear sight is also ajusted to the left and I can't seem to be able to move it ..any suggestions:confused: I noticed right away that it's hard on the brass ..see pic, the left one , it really blows out the case especially the shoulder area. I read somewhere that they rebored the chamber on some of these rifles , is this the case here???
Anyway I will try it again when it's warmer ( less cold) if, I still have it
Bob

 
A 1905 Ross service rifle with the reamed chamber would have been used in England for training. Really dramatic fire forming, isn't it?
All I can suggest is that you inspect the rear sight very carefully to see if you can find out what the problem is. Be careful not to do any damage, parts would be hard to get.
I have a very fine 1905R sporting rifle with the enlarged chamber. I suppose it was assembled after the spec. for Ross chambers was for the enlarged version.
 
It seems that the part of the rear sight that slides forward over the teeth( notches) moves freely ,not engaged in the teeth. When I got it ,it wouldn't move now after oilling it , it move quite freely. I beleive that there is a push bottom type of catch on either side of the sight that should lock the slide but they don't move ( compress) don't know if this makes any sense ,but I suppose if you have one you knoe what I,m talking about..right
Bob
 
Wow, that is interesting what happened to the brass!

tiriaq, is that what you were talking about when you said my Ross had an enlarged chamber? Is it even possible to reload that brass or will it weaken too quickly?
 
That's likely what your brass will look like. bobv's photo really illustrates the results of the enlarged chamber. I have not reloaded brass from the enlarged chambers; have enough that it hasn't been necessary. FL sizing in a standard die would result in the brass really being worked; don't think this would be a good idea. I suppose that a custom die could be ordered. I will try neck sizing some in my Lee collet die. This might work.
My II** target rifle has the small chamber - the diameter in front of the head is so tight that cases previously fired in a LE, and FL sized, won't chamber. I had to make a die to reduce the diameter of the expansion ring just in front of the rim.
This is an example of why it is a good idea to segregate .303 brass according to the rifle in which it was fired.
 
I just made a dummy round with a case shot in the Ross, I partially neck sized with my FL ( don't have a collet die), then ran my Lyman .31 neck expander thru it, sat a bullet on it and it rechambers , no problem ..so far.
The finished round looks more like a short version of a 300 H&H, with no real shoulder
Bob

 
Always interesting to tune in here. I have heard of the reaming to enlarge the chambers but never thought that it would be that dramatic. I wonder if there is any way to tell before buying one if it had been enlarged? Is it marked so by the arsenal? Is it just certain time periods or models? I have been looking for a good shooter for some time with no luck.....certainly would like a tight chambered one when I do buy.
 
There is some inference that some of the chamber reaming was not done with the guns fitted up in jigs and the reamers inserted " true ". Many were successfully enlarged but it seems to be a hit or miss operation as far as quality. I have two Ross rifles, 1 1905 and a 1910 that have enlarged chambers ( look for a large or small E ) on the knox form. Mine just barely allow the brass to " deform " but no worse than some of my good condition SMLEs. I usually get about 7 medium power reloads out of my full length resized brass before I get that bright ring at the head or a split in the shoulder. Annealing does help but I don't expect a lot of reloading out of my .303 brass. Joe
 
E or LC. Depends where & when the reaming was done. There were revisions in the drawing. As far as that goes, there was a change in SMLE chamber specs because of ammuniton problems early in the war. The Mk. IIs used for training in England, as well as Mk. III rifles overseas were altered in workshops in England. New production rifles were manufactured that way, after the chamber specifications changed. Some workshop work was hit and miss. The rehardening of bolt heads using cyanide and torches is an example.
Generous chambers in SMLE rifles help in dirty conditions, and should also have helped the Ross, but the Ross oversized chambers are ridiculous. I can't see how extraction would be eased by causing the case to blow out like that. If anything, it might make things worse.
I would suspect that the overwhelming majority of Mk. IIIs have large chambers. The Home Guard rifles of 1914 would likely have small chambers; they would not have been subject to the reaming program. These are serialed HG###x on the breech, not serialed on the stock, as regular service rifles are.
 
In theory, possibly. You certainly don't ream a target rifle chamber like that. In practice, if the bore is decent, the rifles shoot well.
I think that there was a bit of desperation during that period, when they were trying to salvage the Ross as a front line issue rifle.
 
I have a very nicely sported 1905 *4 that has the blown out shoulders as shown. Has the small, and very faint E, on the breech. Whoever did the sporting did an excellent job with nice chequering and a schnaebel foreend - I plan to take it out during deer season next year when I play 'period" hunter.
Rosses can be quite effective in the field - the straight pull bolt allows you to throw alot of lead when needed!
 
I would definitely suggest a Lee Collet Die. Segregate some .303 brass for this rifle only and the collet die will make it last and is nice to use. You obviously have to hold the bullet in place so no matter what the neck will be worked and the collet seems most forgiving. I use one for my Mk3 ammo and the brass survives as long as any other. Also accuracy should improve with fireformed cases being used in most any chamber.
Cheers
Jaguar
 
There was more than one chamber drawing. The original Ross chamber is smaller than a SMLE's. The version bobv posted is how some of them are.
 
Even if you have a large chamber, you can always fireform your brass and then neck-size it only....... now you have the tight fit in the larger chamber. Works very well, and I have some groups that I won't even talk about to show for it: don't wanna get called a liar!
 
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