Ross with a broken bolt?

A

AK

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I acquired a sporterized Ross M-10 from a board member and received it today. It's not in the cleanest shape but that's why I only paid $200 for it I suppose. However it appears that sometime in this gun's life it suffered from the dreaded improper bolt assembly and was fired in such a condition; there is a circular chunk missing out of the rear most locking lug on the left side from slamming into the takedown catch.

The bolt itself is pinned so presumably it was deemed still acceptable and reassembled in this configuration, and it carried on apparently without issue. I have two questions regarding this.

1. Is this indeed still safe to fire? The remaining lugs appear to be in good condition and I would think they'd be enough to contain the .303 cartridge. This isn't a spindly little action.

2. I didn't see any disclosure from the seller regarding this condition. Was the price paid fair?
 
Nabs said:
I thought the pin in the ross bolt prevented improper assembly ?
Click to expand...
Obviously this bolt was pinned AFTER someone discovered the hard way how not to reassemble it.

Or Chuck Norris was racking the bolt.

My money's on the former.
 
Seems funny if it was pinned by a smith or in the service that it would have been passed over with a broken locking lug. Get another bolt head, don't shoot it how it is!
 
It's quite possible that over time with rough use the bolt could be damaged from repeat slamming into the bolt stop. I'd say that the Ross action is quite strong and if it was me I'd fire it from the hip on the first go around.
 
2x on Tinman's post.

I would do exactly the same.

Over the years, I have run into several with pinned bolts..... with bits missing from the left-rear lug. Comes from people SLAMMING the bolt hard.

"It's just an old POS Ross; doesn't matter if you wreck it!"

The Ross Rifle is a piece of PRECISION engineering. Treat it like an ANVIL long enough and you will have problems. That's all.

If the rifle will chamber and fire .303 ammunition, then extract and eject with no troubles, then it should be safe.

That action has SEVEN lugs; that adds up to three times the locking area of a Mauser, and I haven't heard anyone saying that Mausers are unsafe.

Be sure that you CHECK to make sure that the lugs ARE locking before you load it; you can SEE the bolt-head turning into engagement.

It IS 95 years old and that is quite enough time for Bubba and his retarded cousin to have got their hands onto it.
 
Thanks fellas. Smellie I think an encyclopedia could be written on what you've forgotten about milsurps; your wisdom is always appreciated!

The rifle cycles and ejects rounds just fine, I'll probably shoot it this weekend. And yes, I'll do the first round from the hip. The bolt head is indeed rotating and locking.

I can see how one might be slamming this action when operating it as it's somewhat unavoidable unless you're very slow and deliberate with it. I'm not quite old enough to work things at a snail's pace and I'll confess to doing a bit of slamming while toying with it. It's my first straight pull action and it's quite a novelty. I'm very much taken with these action types now and can't wait to expand my collection with the M95, K11, K31, etc.

I notice no one touched my first question about the price so I'll assume it's a fair deal.
 
Straight-pulls: you forgot the Austrian Model 1886, 1888, 88/90 and the LEE.

Austrian rifles are all Mannlicher designs and the old series all work the same. The guts have a solid long Bolt with a hinged Locking Wedge carried underneath which wedges into a cavity in the receiver. Turn it upside-down and put on a spring and a gas piston and you have the prototype for a build-it-yourself BAR.

LEE design uses a CAM to lift the whole rear end of the bolt UP and OUT of the trough-shaped frame.

LOTSA different systems!

As to price of the one you have, I just paid out a fair bit more for one which likely needs just as much TLC. Ya done good!

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Ross Rifles!!
 
Like Smellie said, don't worry too much about it. I owned a Ross 10 sporting rifle in beautiful shape but the rear lugs were battered from hitting the bolt stop. One of the weaker design points with the 1910 Ross action. Mine shot fine and you still own a piece of history and one of the strongest rifles ever built.
 
I know I'll catch flak for this, and it's somewhat off-topic, but I don't like starting unnecessary threads and this one is about bolt damage on the 1910 Ross, so...

My uncle is an old sweat when it comes to milsurps (growing up in the 40's and 50's) who went through many Ross rifles in his day. Knowing of my interest he has warned me off the 1910 model repeatedly. Reason being he knew a guy many years ago who had one blow up on him. The anecdote, as related to me, goes the fellow was a cautious enough sort and he swore blind that the bolt was assembled properly. He fired one shot from the hip into the ground without issue, the next shot from the shoulder wrecked half his face. Uncle never fired his own 1910 Ross because of this and eventually sold it off.

Question is, what might have caused the accident; was it possibly a fluke, like an out of battery condition with the bolt partially open, or a flaw inside the mechanics of the bolt. Can the bolt internals wear to the point of lockup becoming uncertain?
 
OP, I presume this is what you are talking about.
It seems strange to me that so many appear to be broken just the same.
I can't see anything that slamming the bolt home, puts undue pressure on this lug.
It always seems to be the same lug, which is always the "extra" lug, as there are still three good lugs on each side.
 
I seem to recall reading that the damage to the rearmost locking lug was common on the Rosses due to improper sizing/hardening of the bolt stop. This was actually attributed to some of the "jamming" issues with the Ross during WWI, as the rearmost lug would slowly start to flare out from repeated use and make the bolt more difficult to work. The harder the action was worked, the cracked lug would flare out more, causing the action to get even tighter, resulting the user slamming the bolt back harder, etc......
 
It's not slamming it HOME that wrecks the left-rear lug, it's slamming it OPEN to slam against the Bolt Stop.

The Bolt Stop was not all that big to start with, being a segment of the circular Bolt Stop/Bolt Release/Cutoff, which operated, all 3 positions, through only about 135 degrees of arc.

It was DEFORMING Bolt Stops which impeded function of some Rosses in France; these were replacd with a special run of VERY hard ones from the Factory. And those are what do the damage to the Lug.

In the case of the rifle which "let go" on its SECOND round, it is possible for the Ross Bolt to chamber a round and be held just by the EDGE of the Bolt Head. When the rifle is fired, this holds, but deforms. The second round strips it right out and the Bolt blows back. Very simple cure is a VISUAL CHECK, with the "Rule of Thiumb" or straight visual check to be sure that the lugs are turning their full 90 degrees into battery.

Most important point of all: a Ross Bolt CANNOT get out of whack by itself. It MUST be dicked with.

If the rifle is working fine and you don't have to take it apart, DON'T...... unless you know what you are doing.

Always check the STICKIE on Ross Bolt Assembly. That's why it is there.

Be safe; it's a lot more fun than being SORRY...... especially in this case!
 
"It's not slamming it HOME that wrecks the left-rear lug, it's slamming it OPEN to slam against the Bolt Stop."

Now Smellie, that makes good sense!
Amazing what that morning coffee can do for a person. After that, I could figure it out!
 
if you are really concerned about the stability of the action, #### the bolt and " fire " it on an empty chamber. hold the trigger back .if the rifle is functioning properly the bolt will lock in place.
'there is a steel lug to lock the bolt in position whenever the trigger is being pulled or held to the rear" so says Ross Seyfreid, and yes, it does work.....
 
H4831 said:
OP, I presume this is what you are talking about.
It seems strange to me that so many appear to be broken just the same.
I can't see anything that slamming the bolt home, puts undue pressure on this lug.
It always seems to be the same lug, which is always the "extra" lug, as there are still three good lugs on each side.
Click to expand...

Its a combination of improper heat treatment and poorly designed bolt and bolt stop.

It's not "dangerous" per say, but the cool-aid drinkers among us fail to realize (or perhaps only acknowledge) that most of the lugs don't actually bear...a common problem today with the "modern"
Segmented lug Weatherbys.
 
Thanks for straightening out my story, Smellie. It was several years ago that I had heard it and had a couple of the details backwards. I have a MkIII bolt head at home with the rear lug cracked but not broken apart. Fun for show and tell.
 
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