Rossi Ranch Hand .44 vs. .45 breech?

grinrgrn

grinrgrn

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Can somebody well acquainted with Ranch Hands tell me if there is any structural difference in the breech/action of the .44mag vs. the .45LC?
ie;is the .44 built heavier/stronger than the .45 model,or are they essentially identical other than the chambering?
The reason I ask is....I'm planning to buy one,and kinda leaning in favor of the .45LC,for which I would like to handload some hotter +P loads.Is it safe to load the Rossi in .45 to pressures approaching that of the .44mag?Im assuming if they are "the exact same" construction aside from the chambering,then it should in fact be no problem to upload the .45 with hotter rounds?
Also,same question for the Henry Mare's Leg.....any diff structurally between the 2 chamberings?The HML "appears to be" by design,possibly inherently stronger then the RRH?Im still debating if it's worth throwing roughly 50% more $$ for the Henry??
 
I don't have an answer and would be careful getting one from other than the manufacturer?

Just curious what you goal is, I have one as well and it's easy to work up a respectable load with surprisingly good numbers while considering that these aren't the most ergonomic firearms for controlling recoil for accurate fire.
 
Why risk it? Just go for the .44Mag model so you know it's rated to withstand the pressures you're considering.

Someone is going to come along and point out that Rossi makes the same action in .454Casull. But the .454 is done in a high strength stainless steel alloy. Without knowing how the steel used for the blued Ranch Hand compares you're taking a risk based on a guess.
 
Even though the Henry has a brass alloy reciever, Henry claims it is up to the task of full bore 44 mags.
But me, I'd lean towards a steel reciever. As far as Rossi 44 vs 45 recievers; guessing here, but...they are a budget weapon. I doubt they built different toolings for the pistol range chamberings. I'd imagine theyuse a tooling strong enough for the briskest round for all the pistol offerings.
Perhaps a more telling fact would be...is there a difference between the 454 Casaull 1892 and the Ranchhand reciever?
Unless you speak Brazilian and have a definite answer...spooky stuff magnum loads in questionable weapons

Edit; beat me to it BC.
 
The .454 is more common in blued steel then stainless.
I've never heard of any special alloy stainless but obviously the blued steel model is not that.

The strength is because of the design combined with modern reliably consistent metal.
 
I have a blue steel Rossi 92 in 454 Casull and one in 44 Mag.
The inner/outer tube magazine of the 454 Mag version is configured with a double threaded system (the outer mag tube is threaded into the receiver and the cap which is part of the inner mag tube is threaded into the muzzle end of the outer mag tube) because the heavy recoil was causing the conventional mag tubes to shake loose and fall off the rifle after very few shots of full power 454 loads.
I've heard that the receiver of the 454 Casull version has been given special heat treatment to make it stronger but I personally don't believe that.
 
Thanks for the replies.I've been having a hard time finding a dealer locally with both the .44 and .45 in stock to compare side by side,but I did find such a place just last night,will visit soon.
Also,I wasn't aware that the RH was available in .454,that might be a game changer? Are these a discontinued model,I can't find any up to date results with searching the net?
As for purpose of use....I plan to make a "Grizz 'n Grouser" out of it.....mainly a Grouser to have on my hip/back while deer/elk hunting with rifle,and a little piece of mind bear defence to have along bowhunting and flyfishing in grizz country.
I'm leaning towards the .45 as I plan to experiment with some birdshot loads,possibly into .454 or .460 S&W cases...and most likely will have the rifling bored out to a smooth bore,as the birdshot performance is a priority.Of course I'll be sacrificing bullet accuracy and stability with the smooth bore,but I don't think that will be much of an issue if a griz is close enuf that I feel threatened enough to have to shoot.
At the end of the day,I'd be happy with an effective 15-20yard birdshot load,and 30-40 yard "minute of pie plate" bullet accuracy?
FWIW,I also carry bear spray as a first line of defence,and seriously doubt I will ever have to resort to lethal force,but I think I'll be a lot more comfortable camping/fishing/bowhunting in bear and cougar country with a lil more firepower than a pointy stick and a can of mace.
 
The RH isn't available in 454 C, it came in a 1892 winchester replica. And a smoothbore will be a total write-off as far as resale, total waste IMO.
Use birdshot in the rifle if you need to though.
 
from the research that I have done , all the actions rossi uses , based on the win 1892 action , are the same .

speaking about the full sized rifle in 454 , compared to the 45 colt and 44 mag . on the 454 rifles they added a soft butt pad and screwed in the magazine tube rather than using a press in fit . ( the rear sight should have been modified too , as it flops around until it hits its lowest setting . )

I wouldn't hesitate to take a ranchhand in 45 colt and load it up to 44 mag pressure levels ( assuming that modern brass is used ) . BUT this is my opinion .


I made some inquiries awhile back why they didn't chamber the ranchhand in 454 , and the response I got back was that someone felt the recoil would be too great and the grip position to awkward for the shooter to handle the recoil properly ...... also at the time they had trouble keeping up with orders with what they had and didn't want to go into another product line .

that said , I would really like one ( a ranchand ) in 460 s&w :D
 
I'm gonna try some birdshot loads in the rifled bore for sure before I butcher it,but I don't have very high hopes for pattern density.
I don't really care about resale value,I have no intentions of re-selling,and it has more value to me as a bird gun then a griz stopper,but if it can put a bullet into a grapefruit at 25 yds I couldn't ask for much more?
If not....well.....whoever finds it clutched in the hand of my half -eaten right arm can have it I guess,won't be sellin it though.
 
grinrgrn said:
I'm gonna try some birdshot loads in the rifled bore for sure before I butcher it,but I don't have very high hopes for pattern density.
I don't really care about resale value,I have no intentions of re-selling,and it has more value to me as a bird gun then a griz stopper,but if it can put a bullet into a grapefruit at 25 yds I couldn't ask for much more?
If not....well.....whoever finds it clutched in the hand of my half -eaten right arm can have it I guess,won't be sellin it though.
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don't butcher a perfectly good gun . just hit the grouse in the head .

I use 45 colt rounds for this all the time in my 454 casull rifle ( think of it as a .22 on steroids , that you can still buy ammo for :D )

these are accurate guns , and you should have no trouble hitting a grapefruit sized target at 100 yards .
 
burnt_servo said:
these are accurate guns , and you should have no trouble hitting a grapefruit sized target at 100 yards .
Click to expand...
I spose if I wanted to shoot chickens in the head while deer hunting I'd just use my 30-06?
As for hitting a grapefruit at 25yards.....I meant if I bored it out smooth and it could still shoot a 4" group@25,that IMHO is still plenty accurate for über close encounters with cranky bears.
It's a shame that our Canuckistani laws are so restrictive,otherwise,ideally I'd be packin a .45/.410 revolver and be done with it.....siggghhhhhh. :(
 
A bud of mine found a guy here in Canada... so he says can make mare's legs in all kinds of calibers with ports... what he told me was you have to ask yourself two questions... 1 do you have the money to make it happen and 2 do you have the skill to make it happen without regretting it?... I for one would love a Ranch hand in 454.
 
grinrgrn said:
I'm gonna try some birdshot loads in the rifled bore for sure before I butcher it,but I don't have very high hopes for pattern density.
I don't really care about resale value,I have no intentions of re-selling,and it has more value to me as a bird gun then a griz stopper,but if it can put a bullet into a grapefruit at 25 yds I couldn't ask for much more?
If not....well.....whoever finds it clutched in the hand of my half -eaten right arm can have it I guess,won't be sellin it though.
Click to expand...

You're going to have some issues then.

The Winchester 92 action that the Rossi is based on needs to see a relatively narrow range of cartridge length to cycle and chamber correctly. It also need to have a tapered nose to the "bullet" of the round being let onto the elevator to allow the magazine control finger to stop the next round from coming out onto the front of the elevator and locking up the action.

So your shot shells would need to have the noses of the casings be given a rather nasty star crimp that simulates a bullet being on the front of the casing. It also means you would have to buy something like .460S&W Mag brass and then cut it down, load it and crimp the star crimp on the nose of the casing to allow it to enter the chamber correctly and then feed forward and up into place. You can't do that with something blunt such as a shot shell's nose unless it has the star crimp.

The issue with the star crimp on the brass is that it'll be hard on the shot to squeeze up and open the star. So the deformed shot isn't going to pattern all that well. And on top of that the cases only tolerate forming the star crimp once or maybe twice at most before they split badly.

The only other option that might be available is to use the thin plastic round nosed shot casings. These are like the plastic shot noses on .22Mag shot rounds. But I have no idea if they make such a thing for .45Colt or .44Mag cases.
 
Secondgunman said:
A bud of mine found a guy here in Canada... so he says can make mare's legs in all kinds of calibers with ports... what he told me was you have to ask yourself two questions... 1 do you have the money to make it happen and 2 do you have the skill to make it happen without regretting it?... I for one would love a Ranch hand in 454.
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THAT^^ has been on my mind for several years now,and the main reason that I don't yet own a Ranch Hand/Mares Leg is because I've felt that the pistol cartridge chamberings commonly available aren't really serious bear stoppers.....until recently....enter the grossly overpriced Chiappa Alaskan.
I've often considered simply buying an old beater of a .45-70 and having it chopped and bored smooth,but concerned with the legality?
If your "friend of a friend" can actually do this legally,I'd be quite interested in looking into this further.

BCRider said:
You're going to have some issues then.

The Winchester 92 action that the Rossi is based on needs to see a relatively narrow range of cartridge length to cycle and chamber correctly. It also need to have a tapered nose to the "bullet" of the round being let onto the elevator to allow the magazine control finger to stop the next round from coming out onto the front of the elevator and locking up the action.

So your shot shells would need to have the noses of the casings be given a rather nasty star crimp that simulates a bullet being on the front of the casing. It also means you would have to buy something like .460S&W Mag brass and then cut it down, load it and crimp the star crimp on the nose of the casing to allow it to enter the chamber correctly and then feed forward and up into place. You can't do that with something blunt such as a shot shell's nose unless it has the star crimp.

The issue with the star crimp on the brass is that it'll be hard on the shot to squeeze up and open the star. So the deformed shot isn't going to pattern all that well. And on top of that the cases only tolerate forming the star crimp once or maybe twice at most before they split badly.

The only other option that might be available is to use the thin plastic round nosed shot casings. These are like the plastic shot noses on .22Mag shot rounds. But I have no idea if they make such a thing for .45Colt or .44Mag cases.
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Thx BCR,I guess I hadn't given much consideration to potential feeding issues?
 
I recall seeing 357 mag shotshells, I'd imagine you could get something found.
But a Ranchhand is sort of a 'One trick pony' IMO. I doubt you'll get it to work for what you desire with shotshells.
Why not get some Schofield brass with lighter bullets for birds? They will likely need to be thumbed into the chamber, the feeding from the magazine would likely not work.
That would also involve you getting quite proficient accuracy wise with it, I'm seeing a holo sight or such nonsense. But maybe with irons and lots of practice.
 
Sounds like primary role is grouse hunting with backup for frizz? How about a shotgun with slugs - turning your choice of firearms around?

Either way, changing ammo as a grizzly closes the distance between himself and his next meal / threat (you) is a job for a Navy Seal on Qualludes. A mag fed shorty with a quick exchange of one type of ammo for the other may offer options rather than fumbling with itty bitty rounds?

For my own part I carry my RH in 44 for blacks when in MB but in grizz country it's a 12 / 45-70 / 338 WM depending on what else I'm after.
 
I wouldn't be changing ammo on the fly.....it would only be loaded with birdshot when I'm rifle hunting for elk/deer/moose.Bowhunting/flyfishing it would be loaded with bullets.
Why not just carry a shottie......I just like the compactness of the Ranch Hands/MaresLegs,and think their kinda cool.....but that said,I'm also on the preorder list for the 14" 870 barrel,which is beginning to look like might be my best choice anyhow for a Grizzngrouser?
 
grinrgrn said:
I wouldn't be changing ammo on the fly.....it would only be loaded with birdshot when I'm rifle hunting for elk/deer/moose.Bowhunting/flyfishing it would be loaded with bullets.
Why not just carry a shottie......I just like the compactness of the Ranch Hands/MaresLegs,and think their kinda cool.....but that said,I'm also on the preorder list for the 14" 870 barrel,which is beginning to look like might be my best choice anyhow for a Grizzngrouser?
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Yup, that'll work.

One other option I've used is slinging the large caliber rifle appropriate for deer / moose etc and using a little 22 like a Savage Rascal (mine was a "Rabbit 22LR") for small game. Shorts or subtonics keep the noise down and no pellets in the meat.

I've had to stop a black twice - in one case the bear ended up worse for wear and in the other case it was a turning shot. The 308 did the job in both cases so I'm kinda partial to being prepared for the worst.

But you gotta see them first and "assume the position" otherwise all the firepower in the world is useless. Once when I was on stand on a windy day I heard a snort and the biggest black I've ever seen was less than 10 feet from me. He'd come up behind moving downwind and surprised both of us. Glad it was Fall and he had fat on him that roiled like jelly as he ran away otherwise he'd be telling other bears how good hunters taste.
 
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To answer your questions, the Ranch hands have the same action, and the model 92 based design is very strong. It would not bother me, to load slightly higher ballistic levels in a .45 Colt chambering in a Ranch Hand. The .454 Casull pressure is about 60 000 psi. That said, I do not think I would want to load to that level, but as you get closer, you should be able to tell if it is getting too hot. It is just a hunch, but I believe the reason the .454 is no longer seen in the Rossi, is some combination of lack of demand, and what I am guessing is a shortened life span due to constant high pressure loads in the rifles.

As for the Henry, I don't think it is a toggle link actin, but I doubt it's as strong as the Rossi. But, when a gun blows up, it's mainly due to hoop strength, which has to do with how much chamber metal and metal properties such as toughness and elasticity that is supporting the shell. I believe the Henry has an advantage there, but I trust the 92 action more. The Rossi is lighter too. For a more definitive answer, call up the companies and ask how many psi they are rating there .45 Colts for.

As far as shotshells that you were wanting to chamber will not work. Don't get rid of the rifling, you will then want to go to a slightly bigger bullet, and generally it would probably end up being kind of useless. You could get the little shot cups, but they may not feed reliably regardless. And that 12" barrel is fricken' loud! The concussive blast from the short barrel is enough to "ring" mild steel tubing that is close to the muzzle, as if it were slapped.

You really get the most bang for your buck by either getting a dedicated grouse gun in the form of a Rascal (or similar), or little break open "backpacker" shotgun. Or by loading light in the Rossi, and putting a butt stock on it. You will also have to cut the rear sight deeper, or install a taller front sight. Or taller front and Skinner peep where the safety is.
 
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