Round ball & patch or conical?

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Huntsman

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Good day folks. I am shooting a Pedersoli .50cal perc. Fronitier rifle (m.l.).
barrel length is 39", 1:47" rifling and 8 groove bbl.
I am casting Lee .495 ball and Lee Improved Minie conical.
Anyone with any loads that they'd like to share? I'll be using this, this fall for whitetail. I'm also using Pyrodex RS.
Cheers,
 
Huntsman said:
Good day folks. I am shooting a Pedersoli .50cal perc. Fronitier rifle (m.l.).
barrel length is 39", 1:47" rifling and 8 groove bbl.
I am casting Lee .495 ball and Lee Improved Minie conical.
Anyone with any loads that they'd like to share? I'll be using this, this fall for whitetail. I'm also using Pyrodex RS.
Cheers,
Click to expand...

I think you will find the .495 ball a little hard to start. A .490 is a better fit for a .50 rifle. The load depends on what you want to shoot. For both round ball and Minie start at about 45gr of FFG and work your way up in five shot groups assessing accuracy. As for loads I lifted the following form another sight:

Round ball loads (.490", 175 grains):
50 grains FFg - 1357 FPS - 761 ft.lbs
60 grains FFg - 1434 FPS - 850 ft.lbs
70 grains FFg - 1643 FPS - 1115 ft.lbs
80 grains FFg - 1838 FPS - 1396 ft.lbs
90 grains FFg - 1950 FPS - 1571 ft.lbs
100 grains FFg - 2052 FPS - 1739 ft.lbs
110 grains FFg - 2135 FPS - 1883 ft.lbs

In my .54 34 inch Green River barrel I use 85gr under a patched round ball for punching paper and it is a very accurate load.
 
"Correction" They are .490 dia round balls. I went out tonite and started with 70gr charges x3...then moved up to 80grs and then the weather went for $hit. The range was out to 50yds and groups ranged from +6 inches to just over 5" and 4" high. All shots were fired from a rest. I'll try again this Sunday with rb's and then give the conicals a whirl.
 
Round balls are the usual choice with a twist of around 1 in 66. Most guns with a twist rate of 1 in 47 or 1 in 48 do better with conicals. You may also want to try REAL , rifling engraved at loading or Maxi balls the old T/C bullet. They are usually good in a shallow rifled barrel.
 
aye murf is right. a 1-48 twist is better for mini's. its to fast a twist for a patch and ball which would explain your largish groups. at 50 yards you should be able to easly put all the bullets inside the size of the palm of your hand.
 
A twist of 1 in 48" works just fine for patched balls, you just have to find the right load. My rifle shot shot 3" groups at 80 yards with them, and that is with open sights. Try thicker patching and other lubes, but keep at it and you will find a good load.
 
patched or???

Huntsman said:
Good day folks. I am shooting a Pedersoli .50cal perc. Fronitier rifle (m.l.).
barrel length is 39", 1:47" rifling and 8 groove bbl.
I am casting Lee .495 ball and Lee Improved Minie conical.
Anyone with any loads that they'd like to share? I'll be using this, this fall for whitetail. I'm also using Pyrodex RS.
Cheers,
Click to expand...

I have an old .50 cal longrifle that was one of the european imports of the early 60's. I have shot the patched .490 round ball for years with good success. However for bigger deer like mulies I have started using a .50 cal sabot with either a .44 cal(.429) jacketed soft point (240grn) or a .44 cast bullet(.429) weighing aroung 218 grn. Pushed out the barrel with 80 grns of measured Pyrodex. White tail and muledeer are the biggest I have taken and I don't take shots much past 100 yards because I use open sights. Works for me and the extra bullet weight is deadly...ST...
 
round ball or???

Huntsman said:
I know of a local that shoots sabots thru his CVA Pensillvania rifle with good success too. I myself will go that route if need be,
Click to expand...

It is nice to have options. Dealing with grease patches are messy and spit patches can catch fire and thus cause a grass fire too.I have had it happen.You also have to "Flush" trim patches or your accuracy will be terrible. Minnie balls are great but they are hard loading because you are engraving the rifling when loading. Sabot's are the same but the nylon or synthetics seem to load alot easier. I have used the same original ram rod that came with the rifle for 30+ years. Anyone loading minnies probably graduated to a synthetic rod by now. Now that I have bragged up my old wooden rammer I'll probably break it the next time I load up...ST...
 
Not sure of "knockdown power" but for best accuracy for PRB I would start with 70 grs of FFFg and .015" lubed patch.
Best comercial patch lube I've found is Hoppes #9.
If you need a variety of different patch thickness's pm your address and I'll mail you some.
Cheers nessy.
 
Minnie balls are easy to load as they are undersize for fast loading. Maxi balls are hard to load as are REAL bullets.
 
One in 48 twist is a compromise for most guns. I have found a twist of 1 in 66 is more consistent with round ball. If one is only interested in hunting accuracy then it is not usually a problem but for top level accuracy then slower is better.
Seeing as the gun has a 1 in 47 or 1 in 48 twist then only actual range time will determine which works best.
As for Maxi Balls being hard to load I have never found it a problem. Use a good short starter and by the time one switches to the ram rod the bullet is engaraved and easy to seat. Only the top bearing band is oversized.
 
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Try 55 gr Goex 3F, 015 patch (I lube with liquid wonderlube), 490 ball.

This is pretty close to the kind of the load these guns were designed for (though the granulation of the powder commonly used in late 18th c was probably closer to 2F, so 60 gr or a bit more). Conical bullets were never used in the flint and early percussion longrifles which are the basis for the Pedersoli models. And a powder load much larger than this results in more powder burning outside the barrel, which is impressive pyrotechnics but doesn't necessarily increase the killing power of the ball. Shot placement matters more than trying to shoot a giant powder load, which may adversely effect accuracy anyway.

I only ever shoot BP (Goex by preference) out of my longrifles.
 
I use a .54 with round ball and have never recovered a ball. In one case I made it a point to shoot for both shoulders. In through the large front leg bone, through ribs into front lower chest, out through ribs and into and out off off shoulder. this was on a mature mulie doe.
 
crusoe said:
Try 55 gr Goex 3F, 015 patch (I lube with liquid wonderlube), 490 ball.

This is pretty close to the kind of the load these guns were designed for (though the granulation of the powder commonly used in late 18th c was probably closer to 2F, so 60 gr or a bit more). Conical bullets were never used in the flint and early percussion longrifles which are the basis for the Pedersoli models. And a powder load much larger than this results in more powder burning outside the barrel, which is impressive pyrotechnics but doesn't necessarily increase the killing power of the ball. Shot placement matters more than trying to shoot a giant powder load, which may adversely effect accuracy anyway.

I only ever shoot BP (Goex by preference) out of my longrifles.
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Throw out the pyrodex, get some 3f goex and buy some 18 thous pillow ticking, tow sells it precut and even lubed. For a lube good old criso works fine. I spit patch for target work but if you are carrying all day while hunting you will want something that does not dry out. All the different wonder lubes and butt butters work fine as well. I like rounballs out of even the mid twist bbls and have never had any luck with conicals out of the mid twist bbls and have never owned a fast twist. I've seen plenty of guys shoot TC hawkens and the like with 1-45 twist bbls and patched roundball and the gun still outshoots them so I wouldn't bother with conicals if better accuracy is all you are after. There is the whole ballistics/bullet weight/knockdown power/penetration thing but roundballs have been killing things for years.


I don't agree with a light load like 55 grains for hunting. Makes a great target load but the flatter trajectory, greater knock down power, and better penetration of a heavier load are IMO worth the extra powder even if you are blowing some right out of the bbl. I would start at 80 grains for hunting and work up to no greater then 100 or whatever the max pedersoli recemmends.



I see lots of people spend tonnes of time working on load development when they suck shooting offhand anyway so it goes without saying one of the the best things you can do is is spend the time practicing shooting in the conditions you will encounter while hunting.
 
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