Ruger #1 303 British and moose

I have only ever let one client take a deer lying with a back of the neck shot near the Atlas joint from behind, it was 80 yards away, prone and in woods. I wouldnt do it myself as the risk of wounding when the deer moves its head unexpectedly is too great.
I shoot lots of deer, some years maybe over 100 and guide maybe twice that. I never tell a client to make anything other than a heart shot. The game dealer who buys the meat doesnt mind and pays by the pound.
 
My gawd...

I can't believe some people think that you need sub MOA accuracy to kill a deer.:rolleyes:

What you need is a rifle that is reliable and will put the first shot inthe right place. Sadly, most Savages and Mossbergs don't fall into the "reliable" category...But they are accurate!:p

My RUger #1 .303 seems to put 2 shots within half an inch and the third one seems to be a bit of a flyer. Although I intend to get it bedded, and play around with the ammo a but more, it's really not an issue as it stands....SInce I can't remember the last time I took more than 2 shots at an animal, and if I did need the third, chances are the slight difference in POI isn't going ot be an issue anyway!

I've mentioned before here that on more than one occasion, Jack O'Connor mentioned that a rifle that was 1.5 MOA was "very accurate." He and others of his time managed to kill big game animals with 1.5MOA-2MOA rifles and iron sights, up close and far away.

I've also said this before (but about bolt action rifles) - I'd rather hunt with a 1.5 MOA rifle that is consistent and reliable than a rifle that is sub MOA but doesn't feed very well, prone to jamming and the safety is difficult to operate when in freezing sleet weather and you are wearing gloves. Like both the Savage bolt action rifles I've owned.:p
 
I was pretty sure I had tapped out, however, I guess not.
I believe that I need to explain myself a little more clearly and perhaps ask some more pertinent questions.
I have just realized that some of you may have been talking about groups shot off-hand or from improvised field rests and I did not take that into consideration before I began my rant. Please feel free to correct me if that is the case.
When I say that I, that means only me, require that a 400yd rifle needs to shot MOA, that is from a gun vise or lead sled, or some such device. That way I know that when I shoot it in the field, it may group larger and still be within an acceptable area. I also shoot head/neck shots and have no compunctions about taking a deer at 175yds with a frontal shot between the eyes, but over that I know that any shot I take in the boiler room is going to make it there, no matter what position I am going to have to use.
I have taken many deer with a .303 that shot 3" at 100yds, but I wouldn't shoot it much beyond that, same as my SKS. That's okay.
I can also understand why you might want to spend your money on a rifle if you just want that rifle. I have. I also apologize if I implied that you have a deficiency by doing such on this particular subject.
I also aplolgize to the OP for unintentionally highjacking this thread.
I now tap out for sure.
 
rookie wildcat said:
I was pretty sure I had tapped out, however, I guess not.
I believe that I need to explain myself a little more clearly and perhaps ask some more pertinent questions.
I have just realized that some of you may have been talking about groups shot off-hand or from improvised field rests and I did not take that into consideration before I began my rant. Please feel free to correct me if that is the case.
When I say that I, that means only me, require that a 400yd rifle needs to shot MOA, that is from a gun vise or lead sled, or some such device. That way I know that when I shoot it in the field, it may group larger and still be within an acceptable area. I also shoot head/neck shots and have no compunctions about taking a deer at 175yds with a frontal shot between the eyes, but over that I know that any shot I take in the boiler room is going to make it there, no matter what position I am going to have to use.
I have taken many deer with a .303 that shot 3" at 100yds, but I wouldn't shoot it much beyond that, same as my SKS. That's okay.
I can also understand why you might want to spend your money on a rifle if you just want that rifle. I have. I also apologize if I implied that you have a deficiency by doing such on this particular subject.
I also aplolgize to the OP for unintentionally highjacking this thread.
I now tap out for sure.
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1.5MOA (from a bench rest) is about 6" at 400 yards. A deer kill zone is larger than that. You may not be able to head shoot them or take shots from marginal angles, but 1.5MOA will kill deer at 400 yards if you have a good rest and take a high percentage shot. It's been done many, many times.

I can hit the 340 yard gong with my .303 British Ruger # 1, from sitting or prone (no bench rest) Gong is about the size of a kill zone on a deer, (although it's square)

Good enough for most hunting applications other than head shots. Although I am no different than anyone else- I'll take as much accuracy as I can, provided reliability isn't compromised.
 
Fred, You'll be missing out on a good combination - the #1 in .303 British. Mine is does not have an oversized bore.

Fred, Question: So has every rifle that you've owned shot sub MOA groups with the first ammo through? Curious here that's all.

I've fired less than 1 box through my #1 .303 Brit. You'd be missing out if you make a decision based on my shooting 16 rounds through my rifle. I orginally wanted 180 grain bullets, but the shop I go to only had Federal 150 grain bullets. For a first kick at the cat, I think the Fed 150 bullets worked pretty good (complete penetration of a moose at 150 yards and compelete penetration of my big whitetail at over 300 yards).

I now have some new brass, and will start my .303 reloading. I'll work up a load that'll drive nails over the winter. There is a fair amount of selection with the .303 (but nowhere near the .308 selections for sure). The #1 .303 Brit is a fun combination that has proven effective for me, and will get better with handloads.

I think if someone wants to shoot for the head or neck that is ok. I shoot for heart/lung shots and it has always worked for me. Shooting for the spine is a new one for me. I've never heard of someone doing that unless their H/L shot was a high one. The head and spine are pretty small target if you are shooting offhand, but resting against a tree or post would make it an easier shot. This year all my shots were offhand, but I'll do a rest if I can, but will still aim for the H/L shot.
 
IMGP0020.jpg


DeerBuckhalves2010.jpg


Here is my dressed out buck I shot last week and my rifle. Note: there is no blood shot meat.
and see how small the vertebrae is.
The shot was taken at about 160yrds. The rifle is a 26" 6.5x284 using 140gr Hornady Interlock.
Deer was shot just behind the ear and toke out the vertebrae.
 
Fred M said:
IMGP0020.jpg


DeerBuckhalves2010.jpg


Here is my dressed out buck I shot last week and my rifle. Note: there is no blood shot meat.
and see how small the vertebrae is.
The shot was taken at about 160yrds. The rifle is a 26" 6.5x284 using 140gr Hornady Interlock.Deer was shot just behind the ear and toke out the vertebrae.
Click to expand...
So a developed hand load in a custom chambering with a scoped rifle. Not a box of factory in a new rifle?Not a massive distance but I wouldnt take a deer at that distance in thhe neck unless that was all that was showing. Even then I would have to be sure it was the right deer, I'd rather pass up on a deer than have one run off with a jaw shot off to die later. They have this nasty habit of moving their heads at the wrong moment!
 
rookie wildcat said:
I don't understand something. I was ready to get the #1 on the EE, now I think I will back off. You guys are good with 1 1/2" groups at 100yds from a brand-spanking-new" Ruger rifle?? I get 5/8" with my Savage 111 in .243, 3/8" from my Mossberg Night train in .308, and 3/4" from my Mossberg 100 ATR in .30-06.
Click to expand...
If you are content to own those el-cheapo plastic guns that have no bit of class or refinement (I own them too, so save the reply), then have at it. If all it is for you is very small groups, then you will probabaly save a lot of money during your shooting career shooting these run-of-the-mill guns. They are plenty these days. You should try the Marlin X7 while you're at it.

The fellows that buy these Rugers are buying more than small groups. These rifles can be tweeked to shoot better and offer so much more pride of ownership for the shooter. These are very cool and classy, special order rifles, something that can't be said about your Mossberg or my Marlin.

.
 
Leeper said:
Maybe ten years ago, I would have believed this story. Today though, with a dozen years of internet education under my belt, I know better. It's highly unlikely a 303 will kill a moose with one shot, especially with a 150 grain factory load. :) Regards, Bill
Click to expand...

Under stated. All of those moose my family killed with the .303 (and 30-30 for that matter) with one shot certainly were not as tough ( or as far away) as the moose I have read about in the hunting magazines and on the internet. Apparently we had wimp moose in Northern Alberta up until the development of the belted magnum bolt action rifle....
 
This is a splendid example of evolution in action. Through natural selection, moose (and other big game animals) got tougher in response to the more powerful rifles in the field. With the advent of bonded core and monometal bullets, the moose was obliged to toughen up yet again.
Alberta al was the beneficiary of one of those freaks of nature, a throwback. Through some genetic quirk this young moose was born without the bulletproofing attributes of the modern moose and was therefor vulnerable to a mere 150 grain bullet from a 303 British. Regards, Bill
 
Leeper said:
This is a splendid example of evolution in action. Through natural selection, moose (and other big game animals) got tougher in response to the more powerful rifles in the field. With the advent of bonded core and monometal bullets, the moose was obliged to toughen up yet again.
Alberta al was the beneficiary of one of those freaks of nature, a throwback. Through some genetic quirk this young moose was born without the bulletproofing attributes of the modern moose and was therefor vulnerable to a mere 150 grain bullet from a 303 British. Regards, Bill
Click to expand...

This is indeed an interesting development in traditional Darwinian evolutionary theory, Bill, and suggests an interesting twist which you may not have realized: Survival, not of the fittest in this case, but, indirectly, of the most widely-read, ie Adaptation through Education. In this case it appears that the moose are developing tougher hides in response to OUR superior education as regards the development of ammuntion. I'll pass it on to my girlfriend, who teaches genetics at university. Admittedly, she works with fruit flies (surely a more suitable game for the lowly .303) but since, as she says, "we are genetically 50% identical to a banana" (and 99.9% identical to one another, regardless of race or colour) I'm sure she will immediately understand. She might even be able to get a much-needed publication out of this. Would you like to be listed as co-author?

:) Stuart
 
Kevan.
Quote: Nice job Fred ! Certainly no meat loss on that one. :)
What did you have for powder under that bullet ?

The load for this 6.5x284 and the 140gr Hornady Interlock is 54gr of Reloder 22 just a tad under 3000ft.

The Hornady Interlock is usually the first bullet I try simply because they shoot tight groups in most rifles I tried them and they hang together pretty good even in the 300 Wby. My next bullet choice is the Barnes TSX. I will try them when it gets warm again.

Also my 6.5 rifle has a Kepplinger single set trigger to make long shots a bit easier. The set trigger breaks at 12oz. Unset it breakes at 25oz.

Some gun writer said at one time. Quote: Only accurate rifles are interesting! Well 1-1/2" rifles
are not interesting to me. I have a brand new #1 in 30-06 I think I prefer that to the 303. I don't know if I will ever use it because my friend wants to buy it. Its a One in 500.
 
SuperCub said:
If you are content to own those el-cheapo plastic guns that have no bit of class or refinement (I own them too, so save the reply), then have at it. If all it is for you is very small groups, then you will probabaly save a lot of money during your shooting career shooting these run-of-the-mill guns. They are plenty these days. You should try the Marlin X7 while you're at it.

The fellows that buy these Rugers are buying more than small groups. These rifles can be tweeked to shoot better and offer so much more pride of ownership for the shooter. These are very cool and classy, special order rifles, something that can't be said about your Mossberg or my Marlin.

.
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you are 100% right. I built up a load for my 7mm mauser that give me 1'' groups at 100 yards and since I do all my hunting under that I feel well served. And when i take it out of the safe I curse the liberals for forcing me to keep it locked up it should be on display where it shows its real beauty

For me the Ruger #1 international is the epitome of beauty and function. with its small leupold 2x7x32 scope it is the perfect deer, bear and moose rifle out there. And I can't wait to have enough money to buy one in .303
 
My 303 Ruger shoots better than I had hoped for and loves the Speer 180 gr. Rn. over a case full of RL17..... see post #49 in loading for the 303 Ruger.
Several loads tried hovered around the inch or a bit under.
I have not fired a factory round in my rifle and likely never will so cannot comment on same.
At this time considering the loads tested, I am more than satisfied with it.
All load testing was done with a 3x9 Burris, now it wears a 3x Leupold.
Hopefully I can find some cast bullets to try before winter is over.
 
Kevan said:
My 303 Ruger shoots better than I had hoped for and loves the Speer 180 gr. Rn. over a case full of RL17..... see post #49 in loading for the 303 Ruger.
Several loads tried hovered around the inch or a bit under.
I have not fired a factory round in my rifle and likely never will so cannot comment on same.
At this time considering the loads tested, I am more than satisfied with it.
All load testing was done with a 3x9 Burris, now it wears a 3x Leupold.
Hopefully I can find some cast bullets to try before winter is over.
Click to expand...

Hey Kevan,

Nice to see you have your #1 .303 shooting well. I'll be working on getting mine to group like that over the winter. What bullets have you tried loading in your rifle? Have you tried any 215 grain bullets?
 
virus1338 said:
you are 100% right. I built up a load for my 7mm mauser that give me 1'' groups at 100 yards and since I do all my hunting under that I feel well served. And when i take it out of the safe I curse the liberals for forcing me to keep it locked up it should be on display where it shows its real beauty

For me the Ruger #1 international is the epitome of beauty and function. with its small leupold 2x7x32 scope it is the perfect deer, bear and moose rifle out there. And I can't wait to have enough money to buy one in .303
Click to expand...

Virus and Supercub,

Well said.

Virus,

I hope you get a #1 .303, and enjoy it. The #1 .303 is a fine rifle.
 
Albertaal,

Hunting season was right around the corner when my 303 arrived and all I had in my bullet "hoard" in any quantity were some Speer 180gr.RN and Hornady 150gr.Sp , so bullet testing was limited.
The Speer shot so well with little effort and that is what I went with for hunting loads, unfortunately nothing edible presented itself to test them on in the barren wastelands where I prowl....there is always next year...
For me, the Speer has always been a good and dependable hunting bullet in any of my other 303s.
My Brother in the Yukon uses a 215 Woodleigh in his 303 rifles and I am trying to weasle some from him to try.
I do think these rifles would be good cast bullet shooters with the right combination of bullet and powder.
 
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