Ruger 1s- I Rekon I want a 30-30
- Thread starter WhelanLad
- Start date
nominal neck diameter = 0.3"
nominal case diameter = 0.4"
If the bullet depresses the powder interface below the neck then for a unit increase in seating depth -
delta V = (4/3)^2 = 1.8x
You are increasing by the volume of the bullet, when seating the bullet for a compressed load down into the case the powder column moves around the base of the bullet and up the sides, assuming a bottleneck case. You might make a case that displaced volume within the case body results in more pressure than within the neck... but that does not relate solely to capacity.
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
Compression will get you more capacity. But not to overdo it because if the bullet moves outward as these sometimes do over time with heavily compressed powder charges then reliable chambering issues develop.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Shh...grownups are talking.
Seat a .308 pill 200 thou out, and you get an increase of .015 cu in assuming a flat base bullet. Whether that comes from body space or neck space is immaterial, the volume increase inside the case will be the same. The increase in available volume will always be the same regardless of where the base of the bullet sits, regardless of bottleneck case or straight wall.
NO idea what .015 cu in corresponds to in terms of grains of LVR, but ALL max loads with LVR are compressed, including 170 gr. But I should think that 150 gr / 2600 fps should be achievable, presuming you can get another 2 grains in. With a spitzer bullet that would make the .30-30 a different animal; you're turning a 200 yard cartridge into a 300 yard cartridge for deer sized game. You're getting .308 start load performance, but at 10% lower pressure for the same velocity. That would make for a nice cartridge I would think.
NO idea what .015 cu in corresponds to in terms of grains of LVR, but ALL max loads with LVR are compressed, including 170 gr. But I should think that 150 gr / 2600 fps should be achievable, presuming you can get another 2 grains in. With a spitzer bullet that would make the .30-30 a different animal; you're turning a 200 yard cartridge into a 300 yard cartridge for deer sized game. You're getting .308 start load performance, but at 10% lower pressure for the same velocity. That would make for a nice cartridge I would think.
The .44 mag is surprisingly flat out of a rifle... well... flat ish. By which I mean that from 0-100 you could hold on, and over 100 I'd hold on the backbone or 2/3 of the way up, depending on game size.
Assuming a .205 BC at 1800 fps and a 100 yard zero, you're only 1 inch up at 50, and 5 down at 150. Down 15 at 200 yards but you're at 900 fpe by then. Realistically, with a proficient shooter, it's a 175 yard cartridge on deer size game, though 200 isn't insane.
The JSP below is a 240 Nosler over 24 gr of H110 for 1800 fps - went through five milk jugs of water at 50 yards. The first three blew up REAL good. Expanded to 3/4 of an inch. The cast is a 275 Ranch Dog, over 7.5 grains of Titegroup for 1200 fps - went through 9 jugs / 54 inches of water and I found it another 30 yards down range on the ground. Shoulda used 10 jugs I guess, but honestly I thought 9 was more than enough. Always surprised by the penetration of hard cast solids. A .429 hole through both sides of pretty much anything won't much improve it's health.
I agree with the recommendation for a big bore thumper though. While a #1 in .30-30 is a very attractive proposition, a #1 in .45-70 or .405 Win sounds like it would round out your capabilities nicely. Plus .45-70 is like .44 mag in that it's three cartridges at once, depending how you load it. Plus it's an excellent cartridge to cast for. With ammo prices down there (heck, everywhere), casting for .45-70 gets you a LOT of performance for pennies a round vs dollars a round. Just the thing for water buffalo and camels I would think? On the other hand, the heart wants what the heart wants... if we're talking owning multiple near identical rifles for no other reason, I'm living in a fully glass house.
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No question, 20 thou of body has much more volume than 20 thou of neck. But that's the wrong question. The volume increase is based on the bullet diameter, not the internal body or neck diameter. As Hoyt already said, the powder will fill up around the bullet in a bottleneck case - you don't get the distance x case body diameter to use, you just get the volume equal to the bullet you displace forward of the mouth.
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
My 350 Rem. Mag. is a better example. In a short action the 310gr bullet has to be seated to level A which takes up a lot of case capacity. In my long action rifle the bullet can be seated to level B so I can fill the case to the neck base and get a considerable muzzle speed increase.
For the .30-30 the 170gr isn't seated below the neck base so decreased seating depth doesn't provide much of a benefit because the increased volume for additional powder isn't very much.
For the .30-30 the 170gr isn't seated below the neck base so decreased seating depth doesn't provide much of a benefit because the increased volume for additional powder isn't very much.
My 350 Rem. Mag. is a better example. In a short action the 310gr bullet has to be seated to level A which takes up a lot of case capacity. In my long action rifle the bullet can be seated to level B so I can fill the case to the neck base and get a considerable muzzle speed increase.
For the .30-30 the 170gr isn't seated below the neck base so decreased seating depth doesn't provide much of a benefit because the increased volume for additional powder isn't very much.
You still don't get it...
owwwww yeah!
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
2500 fps/150gr and 2400 fps/165gr MV safely from my .30-30 Handi-Rifle (22" barrel), which has a long throat, by seating the bullet out a bit further from about A to about B, and with more powder. Additional volume is quite limited using the skinny neck. I avoid compressing the powder.
About 100 fps faster than what's listed in the loading manual.
About 100 fps faster than what's listed in the loading manual.
2500 fps/150gr and 2400 fps/165gr MV safely from my .30-30 Handi-Rifle (22" barrel), which has a long throat, by seating the bullet out a bit further from about A to about B, and with more powder. Additional volume is quite limited using the skinny neck. I avoid compressing the powder.
About 100 fps faster than what's listed in the loading manual.
Sorry, still not what's behind door number two.
