Ruger 77/22 Range Report & issues

[RyPal]

Hey guys,

Sorry for the long post, but I want to give the most complete picture I can.

After years of recreational target shooting & hunting, I recently joined CGN & discovered the 50 yard challenge.

I'm pretty much a newb when it comes to actual target shooting, don't belong to any clubs & if I could hit the can at 50 & 100 on a Saturday afternoon in the field I was doing great.

I've had a Ruger 77/22vbz in .22LR for about 15 years & its always been 'accurate enough' for me. I haven't changed any components of the rifle. I recently switched to a Vortex Crossfire 2 4-12x40 from a Bushnell (Banner?) 4-12x40AO & added a bipod for stability.

Once I discovered the challenge I thought I'd give it a go & did some reading on the forum to see where I could make the most improvement. Of course I thought it would be easy LOL.

I ordered a range of quality ammo from Hirsch (SK Match, Lapua Center-X & what the heck, some Midas+ for comparison) to supplement the Remington Target & CCI stuff that I usually shoot.

I got my shooting spot & got set up at 50 & started shooting only to find I wasn't really coming close with any of the groups (all 5 shots, 5 -10 group averages):

Average - High - Low

CCI Subsonic HP - 1.145" All groups the same. Weird.
Remington Target - 1.121" - 1.669" - 0.878"
SK Match - 0.964" - 1.359" - 0.574
Lapua Center-X - 0.888 - 1.249" - 0.474"
Lapua Midas+ - 1.067 - 1.389" - 0.743"

I can post targets later if that helps.

Three issues immediately came to mind:

1. The rifle has a very heavy trigger pull.
2. The scope cross hairs almost entirely cover the bull.
3. The scope was at it's maximum elevation & I was still shooting 1" to 1-1/2" low.

I was wondering where I should focus my attention on these issues. I'd like to keep the rifle, it has sentimental value (1st gun I ever bought) & I prefer to improve my equipment rather than passing it along. I am open to trigger work, or changing out the scope, but it all of course depends on budget.

What do you folks think I should do first?

Thanks

Ryan

 

[grauhanen]

The issues to which you point all have a bearing on how well you can shoot your rifle.
A very heavy trigger pull is counter-productive to accuracy. It is important to be able to gently apply pressure to the trigger in such a way that it does not interfere with the aim of the rifle and the necessary follow through. A heavy trigger is not good.
If the crosshairs are so thick as to cover the target, it becomes very difficult to see and know exactly where you are aiming.
It is not desirable to have scope turret adjustments at their maximum. That places stress on the crucial parts of the scope on which accurate tracking and holding lay.

All the groups sizes posted are large. Do yourself a favour and give the Remington Target away -- but not to a friend. In my experience they are the poorest performing rounds I've ever tried.

Having said all this, it is worth noting that many sporter .22 LR rifles without modifications are doing as well as they can if they shoot 2 MOA at 50 yards. Even the much-talked-about bolt action CZ 452's and 455's are not abnormal if they shoot "only" one-inch groups at 50 yards; good ones will do MOA, but there are no guarantees that they will do better.

 

[RyPal]

Thanks Grauhanen!

I definitely noticed a horizontal spread to my groups when I started, which I attributed to trigger weight. I started to compensate for it with my shooting position & support & found the spread decreasing.

The Remington Target is a remnant from a time when there was almost no .22LR ammunition available. I personally think it is garbage as well, I've had several (>5) FTF's per box, investigated the shell & found a good impact from the pin. Rotating the shell & placing it back tends to produce a shot. I'll never buy it again.

I'm using the 50 yard challenge as a reason to do more shooting.

For a while shooting was relegated to checking the zero on my hunting rifle before hunting season to fill my freezer due to time constraints (work, family, chores, blah-blah-blah reasons), but lately I've realized that the sport is more important to me than that.

I was encouraged by the occasional smaller groups & that is why I am looking for advice on ways to improve my set-up.

Thanks for your reply!

Ryan

 

[elimsprint]

If you want to improve your guns ability to shoot tight groups always start with the easy stuff. Is the barrel free floated all the way or is there a pressure point? Is the action loose in the inletting? Are your action screws tightened evenly? You don't say if the Vortex is AO or not. If not is it a rim-fire or center-fire model? If it is a center-fire model maybe you have some parallax issues. Maybe try switching the rings front to rear, side to side, etc., to see if they are off a bit and there is a good way for them to mount which will get the scope sitting more aligned to the bore. Are you resting the butt on a bag or just shouldering it? A rear bag really helps with shooting tight groups.

 

[savagecanuck]

Ditch the bi pod and use either bags or an adjustable rest like the rock br.Try and lighten up the trigger with a lighter spring. Experiment with the action screw torque. Run a dry patch through when switching ammo, allow new ammo to seat in.Better optics are always good. I just purchased a new sightron fixed 36 x from hirsh. All the extra items, rest,good ammo, better optics can be swapped over to your next rimfire if you so choose. Practice practice and more practice.

 

[RabidM4U5]

Post some pics of those targets it'll help to see the pattern in the groupings. I'm experiencing a similar issue with my CZ 455 where I get some good groups then the next will double or triple in size and that is with quality ammo like you are using too. I went through the works in diagnosing and tinkering with no positive effect so I was left to conclude a defect in the barreled action be it crown, chamber, headspace, barrel or combination of all. Nothing I could fix user end. I had it in to the warranty center over the weekend and I'll be getting out to the range tomorrow to see if it worked. I have a gut feeling yours will need gunsmith attention as well.

 

[RyPal]

If you want to improve your guns ability to shoot tight groups always start with the easy stuff. Is the barrel free floated all the way or is there a pressure point? Is the action loose in the inletting? Are your action screws tightened evenly? You don't say if the Vortex is AO or not. If not is it a rim-fire or center-fire model? If it is a center-fire model maybe you have some parallax issues. Maybe try switching the rings front to rear, side to side, etc., to see if they are off a bit and there is a good way for them to mount which will get the scope sitting more aligned to the bore. Are you resting the butt on a bag or just shouldering it? A rear bag really helps with shooting tight groups.

Thanks elimsprint!

1. I hadn't considered the free floating barrel (apply palm to forehead here) I will check that tonight.

2. The action seems quite tight to to the inletting to me. In terms of screw tightness, I try to be consistent, but of course I am biased. Is there a magic torque weight I should be using?

3. The scope is a centre-fire model with the BDC reticle. I'll play around with the rings when I get a chance.

4. I used a rolled up sweater for the butt while I was shooting.

That's some great advice

Ryan

 

[RyPal]

Ditch the bi pod and use either bags or an adjustable rest like the rock br.Try and lighten up the trigger with a lighter spring. Experiment with the action screw torque. Run a dry patch through when switching ammo, allow new ammo to seat in.Better optics are always good. I just purchased a new sightron fixed 36 x from hirsh. All the extra items, rest,good ammo, better optics can be swapped over to your next rimfire if you so choose. Practice practice and more practice.

Hi savagecanuck,

Thanks for the advice on the bipod, I do use the rifle for groundhog & small game hunting, so I thought the bipod would be the most mobile, solid solution. I'll try the bags next time I'm out.

How easy is it to change the spring on a trigger? I'll have a look on google for instructions.

In terms of torque, is there a range within which I should be experimenting, or a sweet spot that is particular to each rifle?

I'll make sure to swab the rifle next time I switch ammo.

I'm wondering about the new glass as well. It concerns me that the crosshairs fully cover the center of the target. I like variable magnification because the rifle does hunt as well.

Practice is something I am certainly lacking. As I mentioned, taking up the challenge was intended to get me more shooting time & a better understanding of myself & the rifle.

Thanks so much for your input!

Ryan

 

[uberti77]

I didn't have very good groups when i purchase my 77/22 mag either. The trigger was a little stiff for my taste, i wasn't getting good groups like a CZ .I changed the trigger for a Brownell's target trigger and now it's shooting MOA groups(5 shots groups) all-day long.

 

[Cgfns]

Is that a v-block model ruger?

 

[elimsprint]

Thanks elimsprint!

1. I hadn't considered the free floating barrel (apply palm to forehead here) I will check that tonight.

2. The action seems quite tight to to the inletting to me. In terms of screw tightness, I try to be consistent, but of course I am biased. Is there a magic torque weight I should be using?

3. The scope is a centre-fire model with the BDC reticle. I'll play around with the rings when I get a chance.

4. I used a rolled up sweater for the butt while I was shooting.

That's some great advice

Ryan

Action screw torque weight usually is in the 15-25inlb range but could go as high as 35inlb in some rifles. Check on RFC in the Ruger 77/22 section for tips etc., http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=215

Using a centerfire scope at 50 can cause parallax problems if you are not holding your head in the exact same spot each shot, read this for info http://www.opticstalk.com/topic5026_page1.html 3rd post

As to the crosshairs covering your target there are about a million free targets to print yourself out there, just find one with heavier crosshairs and move your impact point an inch or two below the aiming point so you don't shoot up your aiming point, it's still a measureable group even if it is not right in the center of the bullseye. http://www.lyndenhuggins.com/hunting/info/targets/targets.htm, http://www.freeguntargets.com/search/label/Gun Sighting Target, http://www.impactdatabooks.com/Target_Downloads_s/78.htm, http://www.mytargets.com/

If there is nothing wrong with it I would put the Bushnell with AO back on the gun, it's the same power after all and get rid of any parallax problems.

 

[Claybuster]

My 77/44 has the same trigger assembly as the 77/22. I swapped out the factory sear for a Volquartsen 77/22 sear. It brought the trigger down to about 1.5lbs. with the Volquartsen spring and 3.0lbs using the Ruger factory spring. It was a drop-in installation on my rifle although Voquartsen says some minor fitting may be required on others due to manufacturing variances.

 

[RyPal]

Post some pics of those targets it'll help to see the pattern in the groupings. I'm experiencing a similar issue with my CZ 455 where I get some good groups then the next will double or triple in size and that is with quality ammo like you are using too. I went through the works in diagnosing and tinkering with no positive effect so I was left to conclude a defect in the barreled action be it crown, chamber, headspace, barrel or combination of all. Nothing I could fix user end. I had it in to the warranty center over the weekend and I'll be getting out to the range tomorrow to see if it worked. I have a gut feeling yours will need gunsmith attention as well.

Thanks Rabid,

I'll post some targets from the weekend for your viewing pleasure.

I'm using a champion bullet trap, so there's a bit of shrapnel (anybody know how to eliminate this?).

These groups probably also give away all my rusty shooting. I think the horizontal spreads are mostly attributable to the trigger weight.

I really appreciate all the comments, I 'm having quite a bit of fun with all of this.

Thanks guys,

Ryan

 

[RyPal]

I didn't have very good groups when i purchase my 77/22 mag either. The trigger was a little stiff for my taste, i wasn't getting good groups like a CZ .I changed the trigger for a Brownell's target trigger and now it's shooting MOA groups(5 shots groups) all-day long.

Wow Uberti77,

That is a pretty sweet looking rifle!

Did you deal with Brownell's in the States, or did you find a distributor here in Canada?

Did you install yourself?

I believe my rifle is capable of groupings like that, with a bit of polishing.

Thanks

Ryan

 

[tuffbuff]

I'm playing around with my 77/22 as well for the challenge, mine is a stock boat paddle from the early 90's and seems to be fairly accurate as is. It's a 1/2" average so far just having bit of trouble doing 5 groups under in the same string, but hoping to get there soon. I have an NS522 stock that does about the same right now as well. Some things I need to work on and might be good for you

Trigger - is the best mod for shooting groups, noticed it lots with my centerfires, and these Ruger triggers are heavy. Mines like 6lbs.
Scope - decent magnification (14-16x min at top end) and fine x-hair or mildot, AO is a must.
Bags and a solid rest/bench - my bags are filled with floor dry and the front one takes a bit to firm up and get solid, then groups get smaller, mine shoots center-x better than shown. And my bench is usually my tailgate and a lawn chair, not ideal
Technique - try to do the same thing everytime. I learned yesterday that a solid rear set up makes a difference.
Ammo - try a bunch, center-x is the top end of my budget. I usually shoot at 52yds as well only for the reason is its in between 50yds/50m.

Those are my limiting factors in order right now, if you get these down then look at the screw torque, maybe bedding. There is also a shim kit for the bolt that's supposed to help a bit as well. You can put a couple pieces of electric tape at bottom of rear ring to get a bit more elevation.
Season (1 shot/inch barrel I read somewhere) or maybe clean between kinds of ammo, Coffee and wind aren't your friends either.

Good luck! We need a couple more Rugers in the challenge along side the other fancy match/target ones.

 

[RabidM4U5]

Ok Rypal, I see very similar groupings as I was getting with my CZ. I think you're a better shooter than the rifle is showing you, and while a light trigger definitely helps shoot tight groups you can absolutely learn to control a heavy trigger and shoot around 1/2''. I don't think trigger control will blow up groups to 1.5" vertical spread, it's not you for most of what I'm seeing. By all means start looking at the easy stuff suggested by others (rings, bipod/rest adjustment, lightening the trigger, finer cross hair scope etc) and see if it gets you down to a predictable pattern. I wouldn't go to bedding just yet it didn't help my CZ at all and is highly unlikely to cure the group patterns I'm seeing. The good news is it looks like the rifle "wants" to shoot well but something is a little off with it. I'll let you know how it turned out with my CZ after tomorrow's range session the test targets from the gunsmith are looking much better so I'm optimistic a little tweak was all it needed.

 

[savagecanuck]

I see you have lots of decent ammo,heck I haven't even sprung for Midas in my Annie.I don't think you tried any SK STD PLUS thats my go to ammo for starting out as almost every 22lr I have had shoots well with it.I have found that the high end ammo doesn't work well in average rifles.Hold onto that center x and midas.I see someone else with a similar rifle told you how to lighten up the trigger.On action screw torque start off light around 17 inch lbs and then go up in 1 lb increments.My CZ455 likes 18 inch lbs,tighter and the groups open up.Are you shooting of a proper table and not some cheap plastic fold out job?I only touch my trigger and pistol grip and use the other hand to adjust the rear bag.I like the 5 bullseye targets I print for free from www.targets.ws

 

[RyPal]

Is that a v-block model ruger?

Hi Cgfns,

I bought the rifle in 2001, I just read on another forum that 77/22's were manufactured with v-blocks prior to 11/13/09 and Ser. No. 703-58030.

I could be wrong, I'm just referencing material from another forum.

Next time I have the gun taken apart. I'll check.

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[RyPal]

Action screw torque weight usually is in the 15-25inlb range but could go as high as 35inlb in some rifles. Check on RFC in the Ruger 77/22 section for tips etc., http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=215

Using a centerfire scope at 50 can cause parallax problems if you are not holding your head in the exact same spot each shot, read this for info http://www.opticstalk.com/topic5026_page1.html 3rd post

As to the crosshairs covering your target there are about a million free targets to print yourself out there, just find one with heavier crosshairs and move your impact point an inch or two below the aiming point so you don't shoot up your aiming point, it's still a measureable group even if it is not right in the center of the bullseye. http://www.lyndenhuggins.com/hunting/info/targets/targets.htm, http://www.freeguntargets.com/search/label/Gun Sighting Target, http://www.impactdatabooks.com/Target_Downloads_s/78.htm, http://www.mytargets.com/

If there is nothing wrong with it I would put the Bushnell with AO back on the gun, it's the same power after all and get rid of any parallax problems.

Thanks elimsprint,

I'll catch up on your links links tonight.

Unfortunately, I switched scopes because the Bushnell broke after more than a decade of service.

Ryan

 

[RyPal]

I'm playing around with my 77/22 as well for the challenge, mine is a stock boat paddle from the early 90's and seems to be fairly accurate as is. It's a 1/2" average so far just having bit of trouble doing 5 groups under in the same string, but hoping to get there soon. I have an NS522 stock that does about the same right now as well. Some things I need to work on and might be good for you

Trigger - is the best mod for shooting groups, noticed it lots with my centerfires, and these Ruger triggers are heavy. Mines like 6lbs.
Scope - decent magnification (14-16x min at top end) and fine x-hair or mildot, AO is a must.
Bags and a solid rest/bench - my bags are filled with floor dry and the front one takes a bit to firm up and get solid, then groups get smaller, mine shoots center-x better than shown. And my bench is usually my tailgate and a lawn chair, not ideal
Technique - try to do the same thing everytime. I learned yesterday that a solid rear set up makes a difference.
Ammo - try a bunch, center-x is the top end of my budget. I usually shoot at 52yds as well only for the reason is its in between 50yds/50m.

Those are my limiting factors in order right now, if you get these down then look at the screw torque, maybe bedding. There is also a shim kit for the bolt that's supposed to help a bit as well. You can put a couple pieces of electric tape at bottom of rear ring to get a bit more elevation.
Season (1 shot/inch barrel I read somewhere) or maybe clean between kinds of ammo, Coffee and wind aren't your friends either.

Good luck! We need a couple more Rugers in the challenge along side the other fancy match/target ones.

Hey Tuffbuff,

Thanks for the comments, I'm really investigating the trigger kit right now as a first step.

Glad to hear you're having good results with your rifle, the Center-x did well in mine. I've been shooting prone off a bipod with a rolled-up sweater under the butt. I'm going to try some bags next time I'm out.

Consistent technique is certainly a practice point. I noticed one group that was starting out very nicely but the target came off the clip & I had to go pin it up again. The next 3 shots were nice & tight, unfortunately .75 away from the first 2.

Thanks for your input, hope to join you gentlemen on that list sooner rather than later!

Ryan