Ruger No 1 Locking time issues

Muskyhunter1

Muskyhunter1

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Years ago I owned a Ruger No 1 Tropical in 375 H&H. We used to joke you could pull the trigger and go for a coffee before it would go off. That was years ago and I chocked that up to the large case capacity of that round and the mouse fart loads I was shooting, as being the culprit.

Recently I was given a Ruger No 1 International in 270 Win. It has been to the range several times and appears to be a very accurate rifle and has not given me any issues - so far. The other day I loaded some shells with CCI 200 large rifle primers and some Winchester 760 Powder I had kicking around. Yesterday it started again with the slow locking time. Click then milliseconds later boom.

Any other Ruger No 1 owners have this problem?

Should I be using Mag Primers with that power? I have had this powder for about 12 years. It is in great shape and was stored with other powders that I haven't had any problems with. Primers were just purchased recently.

This is the first time I have used CCI 200 primers in this gun - could that be the issue?

I kept about 20 rounds that I will try in my Browning bolt in about 2 weeks to try and determine if it is the load or gun. In the meantime I am looking for ideas.

Thanks in advance for any in feedback.
 
Was it cold out? Was it a light load?

I use CCI primers exclusively and find them to be the "coolest" in both standard and magnum. Moving to magnum, or even standard Winchester primers might solve this.
 
Andy said:
Was it cold out? Was it a light load?

I use CCI primers exclusively and find them to be the "coolest" in both standard and magnum. Moving to magnum, or even standard Winchester primers might solve this.
Click to expand...

Andy speaking in terms of this winter - it was an awesome day. Warm and lots of sunshine and melting snow - finally. I guess I should try this load with a Winchester primer. Maybe that will make a difference. Thanks.

spooksar - Did the gunsmith fix the problem on your No 1?
 
Lock time is the time from when the sear releases to when the firing pin hits the primer. What you seem to be describing is a hang fire... the time between detonation of the primer to ignition of the powder.

Ball powders have a reputation for being hard to light. Try using magnum primers and avoid compressed loads.
 
Thanks Lads. Ganderite your are bang on they are a box of 90 grain slugs that he been kicking around so I was just using them to blow holes in paper. Yup I agree it has to be the load mild primer and ball powder. I shot a bunch of IMR 3031 with Winchester Large Rifle primers and never had that happen. Going to do a box of shells up with a different loading and hopefully get down to the range this week and will report back. Thanks again Lads.
 
A couple of my manuals recommend Magnum Primers for 760 ... and one (Speer) specifically for 90 gr. loads of 760 using CCI 250 Magnum Primers.

Their "start" load incidentally is 55.0 gr. of 760.

I've been using Federal Gold Medal Match 215M primers ... they'll pretty much light up anything. Standard fare for the big Weatherby's !
 
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Thanks Beretta boy - On a side note, last night I began to load some more shells for the Ruger No 1. I did have one shell that misfired at the range the other day (same load Win 760) . I thought the primer just didn't go off. I pulled the shell apart but it appears the CCI primer just didn't have enough heat to ignite the Win 760 powder. The powder was lightly scorched and caked in the bottom of the shell. This time I used Winchester Mag Large Rifle primers. That should make it rock.
 
Muskyhunter1 said:
Thanks Beretta boy - On a side note, last night I began to load some more shells for the Ruger No 1. I did have one shell that misfired at the range the other day (same load Win 760) . I thought the primer just didn't go off. I pulled the shell apart but it appears the CCI primer just didn't have enough heat to ignite the Win 760 powder. The powder was lightly scorched and caked in the bottom of the shell. This time I used Winchester Mag Large Rifle primers. That should make it rock.
Click to expand...

Typical symptom of failure to build enough pressure.

Looking back, early on the most important info was neither provided, nor requested (bullet weight and powder charge). We finally drew the bullet weight out (90 gr), but I have yet to see the charge weight. The published range for W760 is narrow (55.0 to 59.0 grs). What did you use? I've seen what you saw when people use a starting load in cold weather with a ball powder, or less than a starting load.

As already pointed out, any starting load with a light bullet is working on the low end of operating pressure and every powder has a pressure range in which it operates most effectively. Hangfires are one symptom of low pressure, and with ball powders like W760 (H414) that situation can be exacerbated. A hotter primer (usually magnum) or heavier charge tend to eliminate the hangfire.
 
Remington ran our American Lake City Army Ammunition Plant from 1941 until 1985 and used Remington primers to light off Winchester ball powder loaded in our military ammunition. Ball powder is a double base powder with nitroglycerin added for more horse power. In order to lower the peak flame temperature to the same level as single base powders more deterrent coatings are added to the powder. This makes ball powder harder to ignite and the Lyman and Speer manuals even today tell you to use magnum primers.

Below not all primers are created equal and Remington primers are called "mini-flame throwers" so remember they were used to light off Winchester ball powders for military ammunition.

3CCIBR4_zpsa43a3c3a.jpg

5Remington75_zps2b532d7c.jpg


I use the two primers above in my two AR15 rifles and my Savage .223 Bolt action, the Remington 7 1/2 primers are used to light off ball powders and the CCI BR4 for single base powders. The photos tells you the story and Remington formulated their primers to light off "ALL" type powders in all temperatures.

Read the links below for more photos of primers

Primers - Small Rifle Primer Study
A Match Primer Study in the 6BR Cartridge
By Germán A. Salazar
http://riflemansjournal.########.com/2009/06/primers-small-rifle-primer-study.html

Primers - Large Rifle Primer Study
A Match Primer Study in the 30-06 Cartridge
By Germán A. Salazar
http://riflemansjournal.########.com/2009/06/primers-large-rifle-primer-study.html

Also to be on the safe side clean the rifle and make sure nothing is binding the firing pin. The first year I load some ammo for my uncle the first round failed to fire in freezing weather when he shot at a deer and he blamed my reloads. That night we cleaned the bolt on his sporterized 03-A3 30-06, the bolt was still full of cosmoline from when the military put the rifle in storage. My reloaded 30-06 cartridges were loaded with 760 and Remington primers and always go off unless the firing pin is pushing its way through old grease. ;)
 
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Always been interested in some of the "big" cartridges (but have never owned any bigger than the 450 Alaskan & 45-70).

I did read - and can't remember where - that Weatherby was working on development of their 378 Magnum and getting a lot of hangfires and misfires wit all sorts of different powders & different bullet weights. Roy dug in & figured it was the primers causing the difficulty ... not enough flame to ignite the big volumes of powder in the big case. He went to Federal for help and the
215M was THE solution for the big Weatherby. All development work stopped with all other brands of primer. The Federal 215M is I understand, the primer still used in their factory loadings today. (Federal now makes an even hotter primer, the 216M, but not for handloader/component sales).

Virtually all makes of primers have a different brisance ... or burn rate characteristic, hence the caution in many manuals not to unilaterally substitute one brand for another in particular data as the individual characteristics of different primers may cause high or even dangerous pressures. No matter the primer, an insufficient charge of most powders, generating insufficient pressure can also result in big problems.

As a side note, I also came across an interesting tid-bit concerning Winchester primers. Seems NASA used a set of double primers as an ignition source for some particular rockets on their space vehicles. I can't recall whether these were booster rockets or those used for maneuvering/re-entry attitude, whatever. At any rate, NASA did their routine of quality & extreme testing of the major brands of primers and settled on Winchester ... after firing off over 250,000 individual primers, in atmosphere & in vacuum at all temperatures to be encountered, without a "fail to fire". Pretty consistent !

Andy & bigedp51 have some very valid points for you to consider. Most of all, make sure your powder charge is within the recommended range, try a hotter (magnum) primer and be sure your firing pin is functioning properly (not hanging-up or binding, too short, improperly shaped, etc.)
 
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