Russian captured k98
- Thread starter Arco_6
- Start date
Russian Capture K98s are refinished. Usually a think heavy dip in a bluing of some sort, stocks have been sanded and heavily shellaced and a russian serial applied to the stock.
All parts will be mismatched completely. Some also have peened out markings, some dont. Some have electro pencilled serials on components, some dont. Russian capture is a broad term.
Not everyone dislikes RC K98s. They just arent as nice as an original.
Value for RC can be from $350-$500
Value of original all matching- $1500+
Rc make a great shooter or first K98.
All parts will be mismatched completely. Some also have peened out markings, some dont. Some have electro pencilled serials on components, some dont. Russian capture is a broad term.
Not everyone dislikes RC K98s. They just arent as nice as an original.
Value for RC can be from $350-$500
Value of original all matching- $1500+
Rc make a great shooter or first K98.
Who could dislike any K98, RC or otherwise? The Russians disassembled all of them, coated the stocks in a horrid red varnish, the steel parts in a cruddy black paint and then reassembled them with no regard for matching up serial numbers. Instead, they "force matched" all parts via electropenciling. RCs will usually be missing the cleaning rod, front sight protector and the small capture screws on the trigger and magazine assembly. Some people assert that RCs are collectible in their own right, as they are still a part of history. Myself, I feel that they are great candidates for restoration, as they usually will cost less than an original German issued one.
I love every k98, and the RC has a special place in history.
Captured stocks of these fine rifles were disassembled, rearsenaled for the most part and put back together. Stored by their new owners, they were supposed to provide arms for the second and third wave troops in the event of a war with the West.
Many of these rifles made their way to Indochina, as well as pretty much every conflict that either directly or indirectly had Soviet backing.
I can remember only a few years ago, when the first Russian captures flooded the market. Speculation was there were so many that value would drop, as well as collectability. In fact what seemed to have happened was the demand was fueled by the RC release.
JMO. But I think they are pretty great.
Captured stocks of these fine rifles were disassembled, rearsenaled for the most part and put back together. Stored by their new owners, they were supposed to provide arms for the second and third wave troops in the event of a war with the West.
Many of these rifles made their way to Indochina, as well as pretty much every conflict that either directly or indirectly had Soviet backing.
I can remember only a few years ago, when the first Russian captures flooded the market. Speculation was there were so many that value would drop, as well as collectability. In fact what seemed to have happened was the demand was fueled by the RC release.
JMO. But I think they are pretty great.
I love mine. But as CanadianAR said, RC is a very broad term. I have seen RC's with heavily shellac'd stocks, peened out markings, poor bores and really greasy metal and I have seen some with excellent bores, nice stocks and intact markings. With a little work they can turn out really nice.
This is my Russian capture byf43. It has a great bore, just requires a sight hood, cleaning rod and a sling.
This is my Russian capture byf43. It has a great bore, just requires a sight hood, cleaning rod and a sling.
student of history
CGN Regular
What CanadianAR and collector67 have pointed out is totally correct, but I'm one of those people that maintains the fact that captured rifles are still quite collectable. They're still made from WWII German parts so they carry quite a bit of history. As CanadianAR pointed out, an all matching K98k goes for $1500+ while the average RC K98k goes for about $500. So depending on what you'd like to do with the rifle an RC may be a more viable option. If you want something with the most collector's value, try to find an all matching one but if you want something that you'd like to casually shoot/hunt with, a RC is the way to go.
I picked up a pretty decent captured rifle a few days ago. It's a 1938 dated code 27 ERMA. The waffenampts have not been peened, there is no Russian X on the receiver, there is no black paint on the parts, there is minimal electro penciling and the stock set is actually completely matching (the stock, hand guard, both barrel bands, the stock spring, butt plate, bayonet lug and again with the waffenampts are intact in the wood).
If you've got $1500+ and want a K98k then go for the all matching one! But if you are kinda strapped for cash, or want to shoot/hunt with it, then the RC isn't always a terrible option.
Here are some pics of the one I just picked up:
I picked up a pretty decent captured rifle a few days ago. It's a 1938 dated code 27 ERMA. The waffenampts have not been peened, there is no Russian X on the receiver, there is no black paint on the parts, there is minimal electro penciling and the stock set is actually completely matching (the stock, hand guard, both barrel bands, the stock spring, butt plate, bayonet lug and again with the waffenampts are intact in the wood).
If you've got $1500+ and want a K98k then go for the all matching one! But if you are kinda strapped for cash, or want to shoot/hunt with it, then the RC isn't always a terrible option.
Here are some pics of the one I just picked up:
Its also not just if you have the cash, its finding one. It took me almost a year to fond an all matching one. And I had to pay for it. Cant just go out and buy one.
The situation with RC K98's reminds me of when I was trying to sell my M1 Garand in the 1990's.
"It's a post war SA rebuild - worthless! You might as well rebarrel it in .308 for a shooter because it has NO collectors value." Followed by: "No DCM papers? It MUST be a re-weld. Unsafe to shoot."
I still have it because I couldn't even give it away. Now I won't sell it.
As for the RC K98's, we're already seeing that they have gone up in price and don't last long on the EE.
"It's a post war SA rebuild - worthless! You might as well rebarrel it in .308 for a shooter because it has NO collectors value." Followed by: "No DCM papers? It MUST be a re-weld. Unsafe to shoot."
I still have it because I couldn't even give it away. Now I won't sell it.
As for the RC K98's, we're already seeing that they have gone up in price and don't last long on the EE.
Nothing wrong with RCs in my opinion. Atleast you know you are not getting a faked example and one that actually saw use during WW2. Just ask the poor collectors in the U.S. who bought a "Mitchell Mauser" but we won't speak of him again as it is blasphemy.
Here is my RC Kar98k, the first rifle that began my collection and certainly one of the most accurate, a 1940 J.P. Sauer & Sohn:
Here is my RC Kar98k, the first rifle that began my collection and certainly one of the most accurate, a 1940 J.P. Sauer & Sohn:
This RC has been enhanced with a Norwegian Captured K98 stock and bands. The tell tale sign is that the butt plate has serial number stamped and the finish is original.
I have a K98 that was enhanced in the same manner, it sure looks nicer.
K98 RC's got me into milsup collecting. They are a great way to get into the market. They do have a unique history and if someone so chooses, they can be semi-restored. I did this with a few RC's but now I leave them alone and recognize that they are a variant on there own.
There are many variations of WWII German K98's. Original all matching, bolt mm, stock mm, Norwegian Capture, RC's, Czech refinished rifles etc. They all have a distinct story to tell.
In Canada and in the US an all matching K98 is the hardest to find and the most often faked. They are easier and cheaper to get in the US, but that is because the GI's were allowed permits to bring home suvouniers during the last few months of the war and post war (GI bringback rifles). They also recieved more import rifles post war.
I have a K98 that was enhanced in the same manner, it sure looks nicer.
K98 RC's got me into milsup collecting. They are a great way to get into the market. They do have a unique history and if someone so chooses, they can be semi-restored. I did this with a few RC's but now I leave them alone and recognize that they are a variant on there own.
There are many variations of WWII German K98's. Original all matching, bolt mm, stock mm, Norwegian Capture, RC's, Czech refinished rifles etc. They all have a distinct story to tell.
In Canada and in the US an all matching K98 is the hardest to find and the most often faked. They are easier and cheaper to get in the US, but that is because the GI's were allowed permits to bring home suvouniers during the last few months of the war and post war (GI bringback rifles). They also recieved more import rifles post war.
What CanadianAR and collector67 have pointed out is totally correct, but I'm one of those people that maintains the fact that captured rifles are still quite collectable. They're still made from WWII German parts so they carry quite a bit of history. As CanadianAR pointed out, an all matching K98k goes for $1500+ while the average RC K98k goes for about $500. So depending on what you'd like to do with the rifle an RC may be a more viable option. If you want something with the most collector's value, try to find an all matching one but if you want something that you'd like to casually shoot/hunt with, a RC is the way to go.
I picked up a pretty decent captured rifle a few days ago. It's a 1938 dated code 27 ERMA. The waffenampts have not been peened, there is no Russian X on the receiver, there is no black paint on the parts, there is minimal electro penciling and the stock set is actually completely matching (the stock, hand guard, both barrel bands, the stock spring, butt plate, bayonet lug and again with the waffenampts are intact in the wood).
If you've got $1500+ and want a K98k then go for the all matching one! But if you are kinda strapped for cash, or want to shoot/hunt with it, then the RC isn't always a terrible option.
Here are some pics of the one I just picked up:
Almost original. Most were lightly sanded and some sort of coating applied.
Also I wouldnt say matching K98s are cheaper in the US, alot of guys pay alot for matching rifles down there. Not all but some. They are however alot more plentiful.
RC's are great. Some snobs turned up their noses at them, but in my opinion, they opened a new door for K98 collecting, because to otherwise procure a WW2 German K98 was very expensive. It saddens me a little that so many people think they are junk and treated them as such. I'm positive a lot of them got refinished by their new owners, and doubtless many became new bubba projects. At the end of the day, they are great representative samples, and in my eyes, even more legitimate because there is a high probability it saw fighting. I've heard there are no more stockpiles left in Europe; I hope it's not true.
Architect_SA
Member
- Location
- Hamilton, Ontario
RCs are good rifles, chosen by the Russians specifically for their excellent bores, and went from there. So RC K98s have some of the best bores you can get in a K98 these days. And snobs shouldn't be turning them down. They have plenty of historic value, if not moreseo than vet bringbacks. Collected from a defeated Nazi regime, the Russians packed them away in preparation for WWIII. These are Cold War relics, as well as WWII relics.
Their prices in the States are rising, as are ours. Get one before it's too late! I had one for a while, sold it to fund something else. I still have my all matching Portuguese contract k98 to tide me over, haha.
Their prices in the States are rising, as are ours. Get one before it's too late! I had one for a while, sold it to fund something else. I still have my all matching Portuguese contract k98 to tide me over, haha.
- Location
- Kinnear's Mills qc
100% with Revilo!
This "Matching number " thing is overated in my opinion. For many, if it's not matching, it's totaly worthless. So wath happen with a German soldier in WW2 who have problem with is bolt and bent his rear sight leaf in a fight the day before. He eventualy step on a dead kamaraden with his k98 and swap the parts. This rifle has never been touch by the Russian or others but still not good enough to be a collector piece ??????
Collector go crazy for vet bring back with matching number but all these rifle have done his 1: Fabricated 2: Issue to troops 3: get captured by Enemy soldier and send home as a souvenir.
The RC 1: Fabricated 2: Issue to troops 3: Capture by the Russian 4: Rebuilt in Siberian and Ural factory by prisoner of war. Many of them where Eastern front veterant. 5: Stock and then sold to small armed forces. RC K98 saw action in Vietnam, in the liberation of Israel and other " minor" conflict.
To me, they are as collectible as matching one's. They are not worth as much of course based on the larger number of RC available but an Historical rifle for sure.
Only my 0.02$
This "Matching number " thing is overated in my opinion. For many, if it's not matching, it's totaly worthless. So wath happen with a German soldier in WW2 who have problem with is bolt and bent his rear sight leaf in a fight the day before. He eventualy step on a dead kamaraden with his k98 and swap the parts. This rifle has never been touch by the Russian or others but still not good enough to be a collector piece ??????
Collector go crazy for vet bring back with matching number but all these rifle have done his 1: Fabricated 2: Issue to troops 3: get captured by Enemy soldier and send home as a souvenir.
The RC 1: Fabricated 2: Issue to troops 3: Capture by the Russian 4: Rebuilt in Siberian and Ural factory by prisoner of war. Many of them where Eastern front veterant. 5: Stock and then sold to small armed forces. RC K98 saw action in Vietnam, in the liberation of Israel and other " minor" conflict.
To me, they are as collectible as matching one's. They are not worth as much of course based on the larger number of RC available but an Historical rifle for sure.
Only my 0.02$
I didn't know that Eastern front vets were used to rebuild Kar98ks for the USSR after WW2. I assumed that Soviet armourers pulled them apart, swapped parts, matched them, and put them into storage.
I also agree that "Matching" numbers rifles are overrated. I use to collect only "all matching numbers" rifles but I have changed since my earlier days of collecting. Parts would be swapped during service one way or another so mis-matched rifles do not bother me anymore. It is also another sign that the rifle in question saw active service versus one that sat in a storage crate packed in grease.
I also agree that "Matching" numbers rifles are overrated. I use to collect only "all matching numbers" rifles but I have changed since my earlier days of collecting. Parts would be swapped during service one way or another so mis-matched rifles do not bother me anymore. It is also another sign that the rifle in question saw active service versus one that sat in a storage crate packed in grease.
Bolt Action and Nabs, absolutely well said!
I love them all, when it comes to 98 rifles I am not picky. All are collectable IMO. As long as it's not sportered to Hell, I am a fan of it.
What are often overlooked on the K98 is the bolt mismatch rifle. When surrendered, these rifles had the bolt removed, and thrown into one pile. The rifle in the other. The GI comes along, helps himself to any one in the pile, grabs a bolt and off he goes.
Or, a broken firing pin is easily replaced by swapping bolts in the heat of combat. Each bolt mismatch can tell a story as well. And usually at quite a less cost than the matching example.
Here is a BCD42 (not an rc) that came from a museum employee. He'd sold it for a Calgary veteran a number of years ago. I got it, "loaned" it out to a decent CGNer when my kids were young, and it was gratefully sold back to me recently.
It's a bolt mismatch only. Not many 42 rifles around for obvious reasons. IMO nicer than most of my matching examples.
I love them all, when it comes to 98 rifles I am not picky. All are collectable IMO. As long as it's not sportered to Hell, I am a fan of it.
What are often overlooked on the K98 is the bolt mismatch rifle. When surrendered, these rifles had the bolt removed, and thrown into one pile. The rifle in the other. The GI comes along, helps himself to any one in the pile, grabs a bolt and off he goes.
Or, a broken firing pin is easily replaced by swapping bolts in the heat of combat. Each bolt mismatch can tell a story as well. And usually at quite a less cost than the matching example.
Here is a BCD42 (not an rc) that came from a museum employee. He'd sold it for a Calgary veteran a number of years ago. I got it, "loaned" it out to a decent CGNer when my kids were young, and it was gratefully sold back to me recently.
It's a bolt mismatch only. Not many 42 rifles around for obvious reasons. IMO nicer than most of my matching examples.
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What I like about mine is that all the Waffenamt and differents markings are there. Since an original (non-captured) German K98k is hard to find, those Soviet-captured are a pretty good deal for collectors. It's also a part of these rifles history.
Century Arms brought in lots of 98k rifles into Canada over the years. Like all good things, you have to find them. Lever Arms also did. No8 enfield single shot .22 rifles, Lever had racks of them for $50.00. You don't see them at all. When America banned surplus, Canada got the surplus guns for years. Thats why we got the garands and made lots of them into parts kits. America got the parts kits. An American dealer went to the "Big House' for trying to bring in the M1 Garand receivers that were left over from the parts kits!!
