Russian Re-Arsenal Information

The Kurgan said:
I am suggesting that some "factions" chose to carry Soviet SKS carbines in Angola. This means that the Soviets were providing these arms as offensive weapons in Angola.
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The soviets may well have supplied the SKS45 to factions involved in Angola. I've not seen evidence of it. I would imagine that anySoviet military advisors in Angola would have been better equipped than a 10 round, fixed magazine, semi-automatic carbine in a theater bristling with hi-cap-mag fed, automatic weaponry

Lots of proof, however, of the Chinese spike bayo, type 56 in Angola:

 
Boris Badinov said:
OP: to your question regarding to the use of the SKS45 between 1949-1956 I refer you to this CIA report from 1955.

The linked CIA report below makes it clear that as late as 1954-55 that US intelligence and likely the Western powers were unaware of the existence of the SKS45 carbine. Not to mention the extreme measures the Soviets took to safeguard the secrecy of the new 7.62 round (i.e. 7.62x39):

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP82-00046R000500020007-7.pdf

IMO, if the SKS were a front line weapon at any time from 1949-56 it's safe to say that both the carbine and the new 7.62 round would have been spotted long before 1955.
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Yes, I did see that documentation online and their "version" of what an SKS looks like. Very interesting! Also, I've always found it strange that the SKS-45 saw "limited action" at the very end of WW2 but was not used by communist forces in Korea?

About the Soviet bi-metallic ammo... I don't know if I've encountered it but it sounds like it wouldn't be wise to shoot it anyway? I've mostly shot the Chinese copper-wash stuff, Barnaul and Czech non-corrosive.
 
fonestar said:
Yes, I did see that documentation online and their "version" of what an SKS looks like. Very interesting! Also, I've always found it strange that the SKS-45 saw "limited action" at the very end of WW2 but was not used by communist forces in Korea?
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Given the extreme secrecy of the carbine and the ammunition even as late as 1954-55, it's likely that the SKS never saw combat in WW2 or Korea. Fielding the rifle into battle would risk capture and/or discovery of both the round and the carbine.

To date there is zero proof for the use of the SKS in battle during WW2, just a lot of unfounded claims.

About the Soviet bi-metallic ammo... I don't know if I've encountered it but it sounds like it wouldn't be wise to shoot it anyway? I've mostly shot the Chinese copper-wash stuff, Barnaul and Czech non-corrosive.
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For the sks, perhaps the bigger concern with the modern russian and ukranian, steel cased, berdan primed ammo is popped primers. This can wreak havoc on your bolt and firing pin, and can also lead to full auto slam fires.
 
The Mosin Nagant s usually went through upgrade when ever a newer model may come out.

1930, anything that goes through arsenal may get the latest upgrades of the 1930 version.
When the 44 carbine came out, the plants were too busy cranking rifles out to bother with refurbs.
Postwar, the big refurb was the '59 model. It was once pretty available in Canada but dried up for now. Pretty much long Mosin factory refurrbed and cut down to near mimic the '44 carbines except no folding bayonet. The '59s look a lot like the '38 carbines until you read the reciever. i don't remember seeing years converted though.

The SVT40s wee highly liked. Postwar, they were refurbed right away and greased and stored and probably didnt see daylight again until surplussed.

As mentioned, SKS were saved from a lot of wear and abuse by two factors.
Being semi auto and relatively smalll mag capacity saved the barrels from a lot of abuse.
Equally, being replaced by AKs saved them from years of abuse too.
We are lucky to get them in such nice shape.

Those chinese ones, we got a lot of brand new maybe some rebuilds that saw some abuse too.

What some satelite countries did to their Mosins, SKS and SVts are all over the board.
 
lawn gnome said:
The Mosin Nagant s usually went through upgrade when ever a newer model may come out.

1930, anything that goes through arsenal may get the latest upgrades of the 1930 version.
When the 44 carbine came out, the plants were too busy cranking rifles out to bother with refurbs.
Postwar, the big refurb was the '59 model. It was once pretty available in Canada but dried up for now. Pretty much long Mosin factory refurrbed and cut down to near mimic the '44 carbines except no folding bayonet. The '59s look a lot like the '38 carbines until you read the reciever. i don't remember seeing years converted though.

The SVT40s wee highly liked. Postwar, they were refurbed right away and greased and stored and probably didnt see daylight again until surplussed.

As mentioned, SKS were saved from a lot of wear and abuse by two factors.
Being semi auto and relatively smalll mag capacity saved the barrels from a lot of abuse.
Equally, being replaced by AKs saved them from years of abuse too.
We are lucky to get them in such nice shape.

Those chinese ones, we got a lot of brand new maybe some rebuilds that saw some abuse too.

What some satelite countries did to their Mosins, SKS and SVts are all over the board.
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All good info, thanks guys. Are there many genuine M56 Chinese Military SKS in Canada? My understanding is most of the ones we get were built for the export market? Guess I'm going OT with my OP.
 
fonestar said:
All good info, thanks guys. Are there many genuine M56 Chinese Military SKS in Canada? My understanding is most of the ones we get were built for the export market? Guess I'm going OT with my OP.
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The vast, vast majority of the Chinese type56's were mil-spec rifles produced from 1956 until 1984 when the type56 designation (五六式) is last seen. Many (if not all) of the commercial mods were built from what must have been a very large cache of NOS surplus that was leftover after three decades of type56 production at more than 100 separate facilities.
 
Boris Badinov said:
The vast, vast majority of the Chinese type56's were mil-spec rifles produced from 1956 until 1984 when the type56 designation (五六式) is last seen. Many (if not all) of the commercial mods were built from what must have been a very large cache of NOS surplus that was leftover after three decades of type56 production at more than 100 separate facilities.
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Good to know we will never run out of spare parts.
 
fonestar said:
I am guessing that the rifles must have already been ten or twenty years old or so when they were refurbed?
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Evidence suggests that the refurbishment may have been a far more regular process. The Soviet Sneaks for example (Soviet sks45's imported to the US from Albania and import stamped as "M56 Made in China ") exhibit signs of heavy rebuild which would have taken place prior to 1960 when the Albania split with the USSR and turned to China as their primary source of economic and military aid.

I have three Soviet Sneaks in my collection-- one all original 1958, and two all matching, heavy refurbs.
https://forums.gunboards.com/showth...t-Sneak-or-SKS-45-56-Peculiar-mix-of-features

https://forums.gunboards.com/showth...Soviet-Sneak-Any-clues-to-date-of-manufacture

https://forums.gunboards.com/showth...hing-Soviet-SKS-45-56-K-suffix-Laminate-stock
 
IvoB said:
nice information here - going to take a look at my 1950r Russian - and take photo's of all markings (if any)
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Often there will be no overt stampings to identify refurbishment. But Updated designs, or differences in serial fonts are a good indication of replacement parts.

Type1 trigger on top vs Type2 trigger on bottom:


type1 magazine left vs. type2 magazine right:


If your 1950 carbine has the type2 bolt and carrier design with a free floating firing pin, it would be an indication of refurbishment update.
 
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