Russian SKS Serial Number Registry

The SKS Registry, with 2230 responses so far, contains the following information regarding the 1955 and 1955/56 (not date) "letter series" Tula, single letter suffix:

Д -- 128 occurrences (of which, 14 are date stamped 1955's)
И -- 156 occurrences (of which, 2 are date stamped 1955's)
К -- 109 occurrences

Again, "К" does appear to be the last "no date" Tula, and no doubt produced in 1956!!
 
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Here's my 1955 "H" refurb(seems only to have a renumbered stock during refurb) otherwise matching. I guess i will keep it:)
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Joce
 
That is not a russian stamped "H". those were done here in Canada starting around last year. It was a part of the whole ker-fuffle with the registry where there were too many same serial numbers being entered into the system so they started adding "T" and "H" marks as prefix and/or suffix's. I believe RMXC51 has some marked with the "T" along and maybe some "H"'s if I remember correctly.

Joel
 
That is not a russian stamped "H". those were done here in Canada starting around last year. It was a part of the whole ker-fuffle with the registry where there were too many same serial numbers being entered into the system so they started adding "T" and "H" marks as prefix and/or suffix's. I believe RMXC51 has some marked with the "T" along and maybe some "H"'s if I remember correctly.

Joel
Make sense, the H is different,i have a 1954 refurb and there's a H too as a suffix but also look different from the H on the prefix. Lucky that my 54 and 55 are refurb.....
Joce
 
That is not a russian stamped "H". those were done here in Canada starting around last year. It was a part of the whole ker-fuffle with the registry where there were too many same serial numbers being entered into the system so they started adding "T" and "H" marks as prefix and/or suffix's. I believe RMXC51 has some marked with the "T" along and maybe some "H"'s if I remember correctly.

Joel


Interesting bit of information.
 
I was going to mention the "H" but you guys beat me to it. There was an import batch with H's and T's stamped all over them. I have one with HH and have seen up to FOUR H's stamped after the S/N. I have a 50, 52, and 53 Tula and a 54 Izzy with a single "H", and another 53 Tula with an "HH". Also a 54 Izzy with a single T and a 51 Tula with 2 "T"s. These are all refurbs, amybe this has something to do with the refurb process...

Commies, right? Whatchagunnado

Also, I don't think the marks were made in Canada (maybe they were). But none of the guns were registered with those letters IIRC. Of course, making an imperter add stamps and then not using them is just what I'd expect from government.
 
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The SKS Registry, with 2252 responses so far, contains the following information regarding the 1955 and 1955/56 (no date) "letter series" Tula, single letter suffix:

Д -- 129 occurrences (of which, 14 are date stamped 1955's)
И -- 156 occurrences (of which, 2 are date stamped 1955's)
К -- 110 occurrences

Total = 395 "letter series" registry entries

Again, "К" does appear to be the last "no date" Tula, and no doubt produced in 1956!!
 
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Of the 63 Izhevsk arsenal (1954) entries:

no suffix 11
А 2
Б 1
Г 1
Д 2
Е 8
И 8
К 2
Л 3
М 5
Н 2
П 6
Р 2
С 2
У 5
Ф 1
Х 2

Total = 63

Note: there are also 13 1953 Izhevsk entries and none have a suffix.

Overall total = 76 entries
 
Percentage by year (approximately 4% of which are Izhevsk)

1949... 25, 1%
1950... 105, 5%
1951... 65, 3%
1952... 240, 11%
1953... 459, 20%
1954... 831, 37%
1955... 137, 6%
1955/56 (no date)... 393, 17%

Total... 2255 entries

Now for the most interesting calculation... SKS production total (so far) based on maximum serial number for each unique Cyrillic range (by year, prefix and suffix):

2,205,309

This production total will grow as the database grows. However, there are only a few more prefix/suffix combinations (by year) left, and I am now of the strong opinion that this number with ultimately level-out at approximately 2.5M units.

Take it for what it's worth, but super senior member "sksguide" is writing a book on the history of the SKS and has quoted a total production figure of 2,685,900 units, Tula and Izhevsk arsenals combined. He has not yet been able to separate the two factory totals.

"sksguide" is not a member of this forum (I don't think), so here is where I found the information:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?103969-Izhevsk-SKS

This is what he said:
"Some folks on another board have questioned the production figures listed above. These production figures come from a russian language book written by s.v. monetchikov entitled and roughly translated as a history of the russian automatics. the other forum post calls me an expert. i don't call myself that. somehat knowledgable and still learning is more like it."

I am now confident that the 2.7M quoted by Monetchikov will be very close to my future production calculations! I am going to attempt to acquire a copy of the book and contact the author. I know people that can speak Russian, so I can ascertain his contacts and resources.

If all of the above is true, and I believe my methods/calculations are sound and forecasted to grow very close to Monetchikov's estimates, then the overall numbers of Russian SKS's are much less than what many believe at ~2.5 to 2.7M. Yes, the Chinese made many more, but from my perspective, they are as different as a Porche and a Chevy.

These are exciting times for Russian SKS collectors! And, while production numbers are fairly high, they are not "through the roof". :)
 
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Due to a recent rash of bogus registry entries, I have temporarily suspended the survey. It has become far too labour intensive to sift through all the garbage on a daily basis. I may devise some sort of proof system, which I am sure, will cut down on participation to nearly nil. The good news is that there's nearly 2300 quality entries and I have already drawn my conclusions on overall production numbers. Given this, I feel it has been a resounding success. I will keep you apprised of any changes. Thanks to all who have participated!!
 
good work. just a few questions though, and since i am not a statistics guy take them with a grain of salt.

could numbers be on the low side in the early years due to wastage? could entire runs be missing due to being shipped to a different part of the USSR or to other warsaw pact members? would prefixes switch without 9999 rifles being made?

it would seem that only those dated 1949, 1955, and izhevst 1953 are relatively scarce.
 
good work. just a few questions though, and since i am not a statistics guy take them with a grain of salt.

could numbers be on the low side in the early years due to wastage? could entire runs be missing due to being shipped to a different part of the USSR or to other warsaw pact members? would prefixes switch without 9999 rifles being made?

it would seem that only those dated 1949, 1955, and izhevst 1953 are relatively scarce.

I believe that while there were high numbers of SKS carbines that were "spent and discarded" (for all years), as well as high numbers of SKS carbines shipped all over the former USSR and other eastern block countries, there will always be enough "survivors" in the high number ranges to aid in my calculations, but perhaps not the "very highest" serial numbers in some cases. I agree that any calculation will be on the conservative side.

Yes, without question, not every Cyrillic prefix range had 9999 rifles made. In addition, earlier years simply had lower production runs/numbers. There seems to be a pattern, not due to wastage, whereby the Soviets ramped up production runs, so that by 1954, they were churning out very high numbers of SKS's. I need to do some more analyses on this pattern, to really drill down. Nonetheless, my "big picture" comments are accurate: lower numbers at the beginning (1949, obviously), and a ramping up as the years progressed, peaking in 1954, and then a decline in production. One anomaly is that 1951 seems to have a lower production number of SKS carbines than in 1950 and 1952. Another interesting statistic is that next to 1949 and 1953 Izhevsk, 1952 shows the LEAST amount of non-refurbished carbines. For some reason, they didn't store alot of unused or lightly used 1952 models, or the database is still too small. Time will tell.

One other note, 1955 is rare ONLY because early in that year, the Soviet's ceased to date stamp the carbines, and as such, MOST 1955's are lumped in with the 1956's, and are known as "1955-56 no date Tulas". I believe that, in fact, there were many more 1955 SKS's made than 1956 SKS's.

And to really rattle some chains, and generate some meaningful discussion and debate, there is growing belief (though still a minority) that many "no date Tulas" were in fact manufactured at the Izhevsk Mechanical Plant, not the Tula Arms Factory. This is something that will require a separate study, and is outside of the scope of this database. More to follow on this point !!

There are still some missing prefix combinations (you can call them production runs), but NOT many. That is good news. The bad news is that while there is over 2200 entries, the database needs to grow to increase statistical confidence.

I have temporarily closed the survey due to some "abuse" and sloppy entries. I may re-open the survey at a later date once I have had time to properly automate the "proof" process.

BTW, thanks for taking the time to review the statistics. You might be interested to know that I have intercepted a vintage Russian study on the history of "automatics" in Russia, and the book (more like a research study) covers most vintage Russian military and non-military firearms. The author is quoting a total production figure of 2.7 million Russian SKS carbines. My calculations are hovering at just over 2.2 million. The rate of growth in my total production calculations has steadily slowed, and is now "crawling up". That means MOST prefix combinations have been accounted for in the database, and most of the high (or almost highest) serial numbers have been captured. I am confident that after another 1000 or so entries (perhaps less), my calculations will level-out at approximately 2.5 million carbines... and that will be conservative for the reasons noted above. Therefore, 2.7 million is likely THE number! :)

Funny, if I had known about this book, I would have been much less inclined to have developed this survey/database, but it's good to have a check of your work!
 
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That's fantastic work, Kurgan. I hope you can get the DB up and running again and we can weed out the spammers.

Where does the idea that no date Tulas are actually Izzies come from?
 
That's fantastic work, Kurgan. I hope you can get the DB up and running again and we can weed out the spammers.

Where does the idea that no date Tulas are actually Izzies come from?

The VERY informed source, who has handled litterally 10's of thousands of SKS's has asked that I not share his name, yet. He needs more time to articulate his position. But, trust me when I say this, this guy knows Russian SKS's, and where they came from. Now don't go guessing or I'll get myself into sh*t. ;)
 
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