Rust blacking rust browning

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Barrel browner

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Hi all,
I am based in the UK and I finish barrels for the trade and private customers here, I visited Canada recently and fell in love with the place I already have family in Ontario and I am considering making my way over too in the future, is there many guys doing rust blueing / browning ? is there a call for it ? if someone can give me an idiots guide to uploading pictures I can show some work, thanks in advance.
 
Barrel browner said:
Hi all,
I am based in the UK and I finish barrels for the trade and private customers here, I visited Canada recently and fell in love with the place I already have family in Ontario and I am considering making my way over too in the future, is there many guys doing rust blueing / browning ? is there a call for it ? if someone can give me an idiots guide to uploading pictures I can show some work, thanks in advance.
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Rust bluing for classic SxS is not that hard to get done (a few guys doing it in a smallish market). Browning/blackening for Damascus (most American Damascus barrels were white and black) is a little harder to come by. But that's an even smaller market. There's a guy I know of in Ottawa. It thins out after that.

To upload pics you need to use a photo hosting site like Imgur or Photobucket. You upload your photos to the hosting site and then there is a process for linking your photo to the psot you make here so what shows in the photos. Somewhere on here is a guide. BTW, while I am still using Photobucket, if you are just starting out I would suggest you choose something else. They are starting to charge outrageous amounts for hosting when other sites are free.

Are you doing new barrels for current makers (when you say trade) or are you mostly re-bluing, some directly for clients and others through gun shops' repair departments?
 
Hi Canvasback,
Thank you for the info, I will sort out imgur and upload some pics of work, I work on new barrels as well as old , I do new stuff for W.W.Greener, Hartmann and Weiss, George Gibbs, Atkin Grant and Lang, Piotti and many many more as well as gunshops, My grandfather ran for some time the London blacking firm Norman Johnson barrel browners that finished virtually all the best London made guns. re repair I have some guys that live not too far away from me two ex Holland and Holland one ex Purdey / Boss, we cover most things between us, dents, rib relays, new barrels, sleeving, action work, I was curious to know if I could make a living in Canada as I am considering the move at some stage, once again thanks for the info I will attempt to post some pictures of work, I will try and post a link to Stevens and Johnson on Facebook as that has lots of pictures of work done
. regards.
 
As Canvasback mentioned, traditional rust blueing is available from a few sources scattered across the country but most gunsmiths in this country do primarily rifle work with much smaller amounts of handgun and pump/autoloading shotguns and use the hot blueing process. I think there would be some limited demand by these gunsmiths to source out rust blueing of quality doubles and some older collector type firearms that originally were rust blued. Browning is more specialized and there are a few doing this but very few people are restoring antique doubles or rifles. The fee for this in Canada is currently about $600 and when this is factored in along with perhaps stock refinishing, chequering refreshing, furniture blacking, maybe some barrel work such as dent removal and striking, honing to remove pits a project can quickly get out of hand for all but the finest guns. Quite a few of our long time specialty smiths have retired or scaled back in the last few years. Look up Nick Mackinson, Les Paul in Ontario, Stuart Newby in British Columbia, they are taking much less work now and might be looking to sub some work. Good luck, love to see more talent in Canada. J.
 
Barrel browner said:
Hi Canvasback,
Thank you for the info, I will sort out imgur and upload some pics of work, I work on new barrels as well as old , I do new stuff for W.W.Greener, Hartmann and Weiss, George Gibbs, Atkin Grant and Lang, Piotti and many many more as well as gunshops, My grandfather ran for some time the London blacking firm Norman Johnson barrel browners that finished virtually all the best London made guns. re repair I have some guys that live not too far away from me two ex Holland and Holland one ex Purdey / Boss, we cover most things between us, dents, rib relays, new barrels, sleeving, action work, I was curious to know if I could make a living in Canada as I am considering the move at some stage, once again thanks for the info I will attempt to post some pictures of work, I will try and post a link to Stevens and Johnson on Facebook as that has lots of pictures of work done
. regards.
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LOL, Okay so you've established your credentials. Anyone doing work for Hartman and Weiss is allowed to work on my guns! Haha! I don't need to see pics with those guys on your resume.

As Ashcroft has mentioned we have some quality doublegun smiths here, but a good proportion are getting long in the tooth. My understanding is that Les Paul actually has retired, but don't quote me on that. I left a Army & Navy Boxlock circa 1890 with Nick and took it back after a year....what I'd asked him to do wasn't that important that it should be gone a couple years. Eddie von Atzingen of Peterborough retired two years ago. I am using a smith now on the East Coast for most of my work, simply because the wait times have got a little out of hand. I also think that Ashcroft's suggestion of speaking with the ex pat Brits he mentioned could offer a good way to get your foot in the door and develop a viable business. Good luck and keep us posted.

My guess is that if you are just doing barrels blueing/browning the work load might be a little light. However if other work was possible, you might stand a better chance of making a go of it.
 
My best guess is that you would need to colaborate with other specialty double gunsmiths in Canada to get referral work and sub contracting work, at least to start. I believe the demand could be enough to support a good business, lord knows our few qualified bona fide double gun smiths are very scarce and getting scarcer, as well as over booked, waiting time now for even simple jobs can be well over two years. Once established, such a business can also draw considerable business from the USA as Les Paul and Nick Mackinson proved. One big negative you would need to cope with would be the loss of your support group, finding these other specialists here would be very difficult, especially to the standard you are accustomed to and shipping guns and parts back and forth between here and Britain woulde very inefficient. A major change also involves proof, no proof houses or proof laws in North America which leads to barrel work that would be frowned upon or downright illegal in Britain. I have never heard of a wealthy gunsmith but the few really good ones that I know personally have done very well and are very happy in Canada. J.
 
I have some business for you should you take the leap. 1 B&W and perhaps 6 browning jobs. One of the smiths already mentioned has had my barrels from one gun prepaid since July and still in prep stage. I think it is one of the jobs that some smiths put on the back burner because they have other tasks that they prefer to do or are more confident/competent in. Wow, I would really like to see a specialized barrel finisher come to Ontario.
 
The Canadian market is soft for this type of work the turn around time is slow because it's usally complete restoration projects on firearms including woodwork . As far as the usa market there is a lot of red tape ship guns to and from the states . Not being negative but realistic very small following as far as your type of work if you were in the usa you would have more work than you want and much better $'s
 
Sydney1942 said:
Hi--$ 600.00 is way out of line
$ 200.00 is more like it for a set of barrels
Sydney
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Pretty sure you either don't know what you are talking about or you are getting prices from amateurs who do it for fun and aren't trying to get a reasonable return of their effort. Are you talking about a set of double barrels properly rust blued? Do you know the difference between rust blue and hot blue??
 
Londonshooter said:
I have some business for you should you take the leap. 1 B&W and perhaps 6 browning jobs. One of the smiths already mentioned has had my barrels from one gun prepaid since July and still in prep stage. I think it is one of the jobs that some smiths put on the back burner because they have other tasks that they prefer to do or are more confident/competent in. Wow, I would really like to see a specialized barrel finisher come to Ontario.
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John I think this is so true. I'm positive bluing/browning gets put off until the outcry from clients/guilty conscience gets the best of them. LOL

I'd love to see a barrel specialist in Ontario.
 
struff55 said:
The Canadian market is soft for this type of work the turn around time is slow because it's usally complete restoration projects on firearms including woodwork . As far as the usa market there is a lot of red tape ship guns to and from the states . Not being negative but realistic very small following as far as your type of work if you were in the usa you would have more work than you want and much better $'s
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Not to completely disagree with you because I think woodwork can be a big component of the available work. But I know one gunsmith who was wondering if he could really make a go of it 4 years ago and is now swamped with work. I know another, who is really a metal specialist who has a wait time of 2 years and I know a third who only works on guns that interest him. I suspect there is lots of business out there for a high quality, competent smith with reasonable pricing and reasonable turn around time.

And I don't think the "slowness" is related to full restorations. A collaborative effort by three craftsmen turned out a fully custom Fox upgrade including extensive custom engraving, shaping of the action, new stock and CCH in less than five months around this time last year. A stunningly beautiful gun. Slowness in any work is typically because it's sitting on the bench or in a corner, not being worked on. Every client who is looking for that kind of work understands for example that a hand rubbed oil finish takes the time it takes. But it doesn't take a year....or 4 years. I should be able to send a gun out for a complete restoration and have it back in 5 months.
 
canvasback said:
Not to completely disagree with you because I think woodwork can be a big component of the available work. But I know one gunsmith who was wondering if he could really make a go of it 4 years ago and is now swamped with work. I know another, who is really a metal specialist who has a wait time of 2 years and I know a third who only works on guns that interest him. I suspect there is lots of business out there for a high quality, competent smith with reasonable pricing and reasonable turn around time.
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Amen to that
 
Thanks for answering Sydney 1942 for me Canvasback. My quote is the price from one of the very best in Canada and if someone knows of anyone doing this work to first class quality for $200 I'd sure like to find out who. Yes, maybe $200 for a quicky wheel buffing and hot blue on a rifle, not the same thing or process at all. Another thing to consider is where to access materials and supplies here, may or may not be easy. And before the barrels are blacked or browned a little or a lot may need to be done to them, such as dent removal, honing, rib repairs, polishing, maybe striking and engraving, some of these jobs will require other people, other skills, and will need to be fitted into other schedules. Several times in the past, the last one being 25-35 years ago we received a sprinkling of time served English gunmakers who supported each other and thrived. Since then we have picked up a few from Switzerland, Germany and Belgium, scattered across the country and all are doing very well or better, I believe the demand is there and personally I have two sets of fine damascus barrels to go on short notice to help start the ball rolling.
 
Barrel Browner, if you like I can PM you with names and contact information of top quality gunsmiths in British Columbia, I'm sure they would be delighted to have someone with your skills as a resource available in Canada. These shops specialize in high quality work on high quality guns and they are swamped with work. One of these is a custom rifle maker with their own patented single shot falling block action and they currently source some of their work from USA. I have also heard of similar quality shops in Alberta, Ontario and Newfoundland and I'm sure we have quite a few more scattered around this vast country of ours, I'm sure others can help out here. Cheers, J.
 
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