Rust bluing question- boilin' water

Oddbawl

Oddbawl

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Oi lads,
Just finished my first boil/card cycle on a '97 reciever. Seems to be going well and I'm about to apply more solution and let it rust again. My question is this- when I go to boil it again, do I have to change the distilled water, or can I reuse the stuff from before?
 
Can't help you about the water, but what solution were you using (if homemade can you pass along the formula?)?
 
Oddbawl said:
Oi lads,
Just finished my first boil/card cycle on a '97 reciever. Seems to be going well and I'm about to apply more solution and let it rust again. My question is this- when I go to boil it again, do I have to change the distilled water, or can I reuse the stuff from before?
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I boil after each rust, then card. I use distilled water that I change after every second boil.

Usually, I go through the rust- boil-card cycle 5-7 times.
 
I just use tap water with no problems. Although I have heard that water in some areas can be a problem. I never change the water no matter how bad it looks. Just keep topping it up as needed. The main thing is not to contaminate the metal with your greasy fingers. Also when removing parts from the water have paper towels ready to soak up any areas where the water may pool or form a droplet immediately.
 
I'm with PJs, in that I do not change the water unless I notice oil on the surface. If you have degreased properly, that should not happen.

Paul, I have a question for you: I can't remember if I had already discussed this with you, but have it in my head I got this idea from you - do you seal the threads at the barrel/action with varnish (nail polish)?

I have a couple of barreled actions that I was going to have the barrels stripped out of before bluing, are you doing that, or are you bluing with the barrel in?
 
shoshin said:
Can't help you about the water, but what solution were you using (if homemade can you pass along the formula?)?
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I got it from an Asian fellow on the West Coast. It's been about a year, and his contact info is on my old computer. I think it was $15/100ml. It's called "Swiss Armory Formula" If anybody knows the guy I'm talking about pass it on, if not I'll try to track down his info. The stuff came highly recommended, and seems to work well, with great instructions.
 
Pudelpointer said:
I'm with PJs, in that I do not change the water unless I notice oil on the surface. If you have degreased properly, that should not happen.

Paul, I have a question for you: I can't remember if I had already discussed this with you, but have it in my head I got this idea from you - do you seal the threads at the barrel/action with varnish (nail polish)?

I have a couple of barreled actions that I was going to have the barrels stripped out of before bluing, are you doing that, or are you bluing with the barrel in?
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Hi Ian

IMO, it is a good idea to separate the action/barrel before bluing. This would eliminate any possibility of oil wicking out from between the two parts during bluing.

Unfortunately, I have neither the tools or the skills to remove barrels so I just go ahead and blue the assembled unit and keep my fingers crossed. So far I haven't had any issues with oil.

I think I recall our discussion about protection:p but I believe it was about protecting the bore during boiling. When I started bluing, I would coat the bore with lacquer before starting then remove it with varsol when the job was done. It was a PITA.

Now I don't bother. I make sure the bore is degreased along with the rest of the metal and start bluing. After each boil, the barreled action will immediately dry from the heat. After cooling and before carding, I run a clean patch through the bore to remove any crud. Of course, the cleaning rod has been throughly degreased beforehand.

After the job is done, I give the bore a good cleaning and oiling along with the rest of the metal. I also dribble some Kroil into the action/barrel joint just in case.
 
Oddbawl said:
I got it from an Asian fellow on the West Coast. It's been about a year, and his contact info is on my old computer. I think it was $15/100ml. It's called "Swiss Armory Formula" If anybody knows the guy I'm talking about pass it on, if not I'll try to track down his info. The stuff came highly recommended, and seems to work well, with great instructions.
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I think you're referring to mundane_rinpoche@yahoo.com . (I asked for and received his permission to post his e-mail address)

His product is based on the Swiss Armory Formula and gives an excellent blue. As you say, his instruction are very good.

Something to keep in mind. His solution is pretty 'hot'. By this I mean it will start rusting almost immediately and if left on too long, it may pit. He recommends 6-12 hours in a humidity box. IMO, this is too long.

I used his solution on my most recent job. I had the humidity at 85% and temp at 85-90F in the box. I let the pieces rust for 3-4 hours then boiled. Six repeats and the job was done with very nice results.

On the other hand, I have gotten very nice results when I have gone up to 12 hours between boils where I wasn't using a box. RH was about 50-60%.
 
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Thanks Paul,

I remember our conversation now. My concern on one of the guns is that it might be re-barreled in the future, and I would hat to see it so rusted that you could not get it out.

Ian
 
Mind you, it is not like I will be soaking the action in solution, so there probably is not a lot of rust that is going to form in the threads anyway. I am probably being paranoid.

BTW, I just got a carding brush from Brownell's, I will be trying it out on these guns. Maybe I will remember to do some before/after pics?!
 
Mauser98 said:
I think you're referring to Keng-Pei Chiang at mundane_rinpoche@yahoo.com . (I asked for and received his permission to post his e-mail address)

His product is based on the Swiss Armory Formula and gives an excellent blue. As you say, his instruction are very good.

Something to keep in mind. His solution is pretty 'hot'. By this I mean it will start rusting almost immediately and if left on too long, it may pit. He recommends 6-12 hours in a humidity box. IMO, this is too long.

I used his solution on my most recent job. I had the humidity at 85% and temp at 85-90F in the box. I let the pieces rust for 3-4 hours then boiled. Six repeats and the job was done with very nice results.

On the other hand, I have gotten very nice results when I have gone up to 12 hours between boils where I wasn't using a box. RH was about 50-60%.
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Yep, that was him, didn't want to post his name, and couldn't find his email to ask him. 5 coats and I'm really happy with his stuff. First time I've tried it (bluing) and I went cautious- 6-8 hours rust time in ambient humidity (80%)
No pitting and the finish is great!
I can now recommend his stuff, and he's Canadian so no import issues.
Now on to the barrel. After that the most terrifying part. Reassembly. As best as I can tell, the Winchester 1897 is the most complicated freaking firearm ever devised, and I took it apart last year, so who knows how many parts I'll have left over...
 
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