S&W M&P pro 5" a total dud?

iamcanadianeh

iamcanadianeh

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I started bringing out a new female shooter to the range recently, and she's caught the handgun bug. She did very well the few times I've had her out with my 625 and CZ SP01 and Kadet. She is very excited and just got her brand new M&P Pro 5" 9mm today. We picked up some AE 124gr, and then headed out to the range. Everything was downhill from there.


She couldn't hit hardly anything at the 10m mark. After a while I decided to take a few shots to see what was going on expecting it to be a sight alignment issue or something minor. I was all over the place at 10m too. Approx 3.5" at 10m, and about 7" at 25m. Brutal accuracy, especially for a 'pro' pistol IMO (I can do one hole groups at 10m with my 625 or STI Targetmaster at 10m no problem, and can shoot well with most other guns). She was discouraged enough to not blow through all the ammo and call it quits early. I don't blame her. I've heard about the M&P accuracy issues in the past, which I thought they solved. I've had one of the accuracy issue guns a few years ago (a 'special edition' M&P to boot), and a friend also had one that was a crooked shooter.

I've also seen some posts on here with very happy M&P Pro owners. What ammo are you using for accuracy? Any reloading data for Berry's 124gr and Titegroup that works well? I'm really wanting/hoping that this gun just doesn't like 124gr AE and I can sort this out.
 
iamcanadianeh said:
I started bringing out a new female shooter to the range recently, and she's caught the handgun bug. She did very well the few times I've had her out with my 625 and CZ SP01 and Kadet. She is very excited and just got her brand new M&P Pro 5" 9mm today. We picked up some AE 124gr, and then headed out to the range. Everything was downhill from there.


She couldn't hit hardly anything at the 10m mark. After a while I decided to take a few shots to see what was going on expecting it to be a sight alignment issue or something minor. I was all over the place at 10m too. Approx 3.5" at 10m, and about 7" at 25m. Brutal accuracy, especially for a 'pro' pistol IMO (I can do one hole groups at 10m with my 625 or STI Targetmaster at 10m no problem, and can shoot well with most other guns). She was discouraged enough to not blow through all the ammo and call it quits early. I don't blame her. I've heard about the M&P accuracy issues in the past, which I thought they solved. I've had one of the accuracy issue guns a few years ago (a 'special edition' M&P to boot), and a friend also had one that was a crooked shooter.

I've also seen some posts on here with very happy M&P Pro owners. What ammo are you using for accuracy? Any reloading data for Berry's 124gr and Titegroup that works well? I'm really wanting/hoping that this gun just doesn't like 124gr AE and I can sort this out.
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I've used 115/124/147 no issues. I got a Pro the sights do mess with you since they are so damn tall. take a bit of getting use too. I use Longshot and cheap campros.
 
Picked up a Glock 17 as a gift for my wife… right out of the box she was dead accurate with it, she loves it.
Recently picked up a Sig P320 and again a very accurate pistole, she is dead accurate with it.

Also have a Beretta 92FS, very accurate pistole, she is dead accurate with it as well.
Have a Norc 1911 45acp (had to give its try, price was right) and she shoots that pretty good.

Newer Norc 1911's have a good reputation so i don't consider it a 'budget' pistole that compromise function and accuracy.
Wife enjoys all metal pistols as they do a good job regulating muzzle flip however she prefers the weight of the polymer pistoles.

With pistoles, more often than not, I go with the tried tested and proven weapon systems.
 
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ESP said:
s.

With pistols, more often than not, I go with the tried tested and proven weapon systems.
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The M&P is not a proven pistol? That seems to be what you are implying. The Glock and M&P's are very good pistols. Accuracy wise neither will match a CZ/SIG or Tanfoglio off of a bench from my experience. No experience with the 92. To big of a gun with awkward slide mounted safety to my mind.

The shooter may or may not have a problem gun. More likely the shooter. The older Norcs have a better reputation than the newer ones from what I have seen. The Norincos can be very very good - I have three good ones in 1911 or not so hot. The SIG copy is very good as is the NZ85. The Hi-Power copy by Norinco not so much.

Take Care

Bob
 
Happypillz said:
I've used 115/124/147 no issues. I got a Pro the sights do mess with you since they are so damn tall. take a bit of getting use too. I use Longshot and cheap campros.
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The sights on this one are Novak rear and fiber optic front, they're about standard height.


Canuck44 said:
The M&P is not a proven pistol? That seems to be what you are implying. The Glock and M&P's are very good pistols. Accuracy wise neither will match a CZ/SIG or Tanfoglio off of a bench from my experience. No experience with the 92. To big of a gun with awkward slide mounted safety to my mind.

The shooter may or may not have a problem gun. More likely the shooter. The older Norcs have a better reputation than the newer ones from what I have seen. The Norincos can be very very good - I have three good ones in 1911 or not so hot. The SIG copy is very good as is the NZ85. The Hi-Power copy by Norinco not so much.

Take Care

Bob
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I'm wondering if the M&P is a proven platform... I see lots of love for the M&P online, but have yet to shoot one where I can see why. A 'M&P accuracy' Google search turns up lots of complaints on them too. I like the way it feels, I like the way it points, I've never had or seen a failure with one, but I've also never seen one that shoots accurately. Full disclosure, I knew about and experienced the accuracy problems quite a while ago, but recommended she get the 5" pro model since I figured S&W would have sorted it out by now, especially in their 'premium' lines, and I've rumors of S&Ws 3" at 25yard benchmark for their pro series.
 
I have a Pro and it shoots 1 - 1.5" groups all day long at 10 yards freestyle. Yes it is a proven design. The gun makes up about 40% of the gun designs. at the IDPA US Nationals just behind the Glock in popularly. BC Sheriffs use the M&P as does the Fish & Wildlife folks, as do numerous police forces in the US. Early accuracy issues have largely been dealt with in the 9MM when S&W moved to a 1 - 10 twist barrel. I installed one in my older Pro and it seems to makes some differemce. My gun was very good with the older barrel as well as is my FS. The gun has been around for sometime now with continuous upgrades. Try shooting the gun off a bench and see how the gun shoots. If you still have problems get hold of the Warranty Centre. Smith will stand behind the gun.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
I have a Pro and it shoots 1 - 1.5" groups all day long at 10 yards freestyle. Yes it is a proven design. The gun makes up about 40% of the gun designs. at the IDPA US Nationals just behind the Glock in popularly. BC Sheriffs use the M&P as does the Fish & Wildlife folks, as do numerous police forces in the US. Early accuracy issues have largely been dealt with in the 9MM when S&W moved to a 1 - 10 twist barrel. I installed one in my older Pro and it seems to makes some differemce. My gun was very good with the older barrel as well as is my FS. The gun has been around for sometime now with continuous upgrades. Try shooting the gun off a bench and see how the gun shoots. If you still have problems get hold of the Warranty Centre. Smith will stand behind the gun.

Take Care

Bob
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I was sand bagging it to test it at 10m and 25m when I got those large groups. What loads are you using in yours?
 
Took me about 3 range trips before I even got half decent with mine. Give it some more trigger time. I've found 124g the best for me. At 10m it's no problem to get tight groups.
 
Sorry to hear about your Pro. Based on your past experience and sandbag trials you just may have a lemon. Get as many other experienced shooters you can find to give it a go. That will settle it. My Pro loves 124gr of any kind for the record. 2" at 10m is my average. Could do much better with more practice.
 
iamcanadianeh said:
I was sand bagging it to test it at 10m and 25m when I got those large groups. What loads are you using in yours?
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4.1 gr of 231/HP38 under my Lyman 356402 125 gr TC bullet is my lead load. I also use 4 gr of Titegroup under a BDX 125 gr jacketed bullet. The 154 gr Lyman works well using 3.4 gr of Unique. I believe the pistol works best with 124/125 gr bullets, either jacketed/plated or lead cast. The 1 - 10 twist favours that bullet. I don;t use the 115 gr bullet. I have no use for it as I am chasing a 125 power factor for IDPA and formerly IPSC along with accuracy.

I would suggest in your case it is really just the need for you to get used to the trigger and sight picture more than the gun. If you can ask someone who shoots the M&P regularly to give it a try. You might also want to check your rear sight. Mine has come loose on me occasionally due to the set screw not being tighten enough. Not a ongoing problem you have to deal with but it can come loose. I use a little non permanent lock tite on the screw now. You might want to check yours.

If all else fails get hold of S&W. If it is the gun they will fix it.

Take Care

Bob
 
If you are bench resting the gun and are fairly experienced then you definitely have a lemon.
I had no issues with my CORE. Pmc 124's gave tight groups.
Replace it with a CZ. :)
 
I shoot two Pros. One with Dawson irons, the other a CORE with Leupold DeltaPoint. My experience differs from yours. Different shooter, different gun.
 
Not a bad plan, but I'd be suspicious of a improperly fitted barrel or some such nonsense.
The trigger takes some getting used to but a sand-bagged gun mitigates potential user error in my experience.
Several times I've thought 'the sights must be off' when I'm shooting freehand, only to punch out the x-ring when I bench it :)
 
Day 2 round 2, can't hit anything with the gun. 4-6" groups at the 10-15m mark off a rest with 4 different ammo types. Thankfully I had my 625 so we could hit something and make her feel better before calling it a day. She's pretty frustrated and disappointed, especially this being her first gun. She called Wolverine and got a return number. They're going to have a gunsmith take a look at it and go from there, I'm hoping she can get a credit and get a different gun.
 
iamcanadianeh said:
The sights on this one are Novak rear and fiber optic front, they're about standard height.




I'm wondering if the M&P is a proven platform... I see lots of love for the M&P online, but have yet to shoot one where I can see why. A 'M&P accuracy' Google search turns up lots of complaints on them too. I like the way it feels, I like the way it points, I've never had or seen a failure with one, but I've also never seen one that shoots accurately. Full disclosure, I knew about and experienced the accuracy problems quite a while ago, but recommended she get the 5" pro model since I figured S&W would have sorted it out by now, especially in their 'premium' lines, and I've rumors of S&Ws 3" at 25yard benchmark for their pro series.
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Hmm if you have novak sights it they might be the wrong ones. I have the stock ones which are co-witness to a red-dot.
 
Happypillz said:
Hmm if you have novak sights it they might be the wrong ones. I have the stock ones which are co-witness to a red-dot.
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The C.O.R.E. has the raised sights and the slide milled for an optic.
The PRO has regular height sights.

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