s&w m&p9 pro VS cz shadow
- Thread starter PharoH
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lineofsight
CGN frequent flyer
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- Lower Mainland, BC
You're comparing all steel to steel/polymer. Weight difference will be very apparent when you pick it up and muzzle flip will be different when you shoot them. Really think these are two you will have to try. The CZ grip is also fairly contoured, if it fits your hand it will fit well, if not... I have both a G17 and Shadow, are different enough to have both (is that not always the best answer? get both...).
you joking? can't really compare the two. one is a striker fired DA with a heavy trigger pull. the shadow will be used in SA mode and has a target trigger. the cz will be more accurate with personal preferences and ergonomics aside. you'll have to try both to see what feels better but the cz is designed for accuracy. if for IPSC i think it's an easy answer. i've fired the MP and was not really impressed. not it's fault though as i've never liked any plastic pistol i've shot. i've not fired a shadow but have played with a 75B and was a very nice pistol
Ah you can lighten the trigger in the M&P - safely and legally - so that argument is taken away. CZ trigger springs tend to be weak points that often break at bad times so a mark against there. Ergonomics are a personal matter. I like all steel guns but the M&P's are nice too!
The Pro series M&P comes from the factory with the lightened trigger, fiber optic front sight and target novak rear and it's a 5" barrel, 8 and 1/2" long slide. Almost same as the shadow I think. This is why I don't know what to do. I'm almost leaning towards the pro m&p because I would have the same format firearm as my duty firearm at my work.
- Location
- Lower Mainland BC
I vote always for steel-on-steel pistols ... then I'll say: CZ Shadow is one good choice for IPSC
Both will work.
The M&P, newer, plastic, is cheaper, lighter, and faster to field-strip. The CZ, more-prolific, steel, is heavier and costs more. The joys of the magazine disconnect are known only to the owner of the M&P...but, if you buy a unencumbered version, you might happily maintain your naivete. (This so-called 'feature', unless you do want it, you probably don't want it.)
Magazine disconnect aside, if you can, hold them and shoot them...you'll know which is for you.
This forum has threads specific to your interest:
Action Shooting Games
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=82
The M&P, newer, plastic, is cheaper, lighter, and faster to field-strip. The CZ, more-prolific, steel, is heavier and costs more. The joys of the magazine disconnect are known only to the owner of the M&P...but, if you buy a unencumbered version, you might happily maintain your naivete. (This so-called 'feature', unless you do want it, you probably don't want it.)
Magazine disconnect aside, if you can, hold them and shoot them...you'll know which is for you.
This forum has threads specific to your interest:
Action Shooting Games
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=82
I think the justification of going with the Pro for duty reference is dangerous because the pro is totally different from the standard M&P. Not only will the sights and trigger pull be different throwing you off in a potentially life or death situation but the feel, weight and balance are very different. Again, effecting your response time with the M&P.
If you want to practice with your duty pistol (which I highly recommend). Buy something that is exactly the same as your duty pistol or practice with your duty pistol as much as possible. Otherwise, shoot whatever but don't write it off as time spent towards practice with your duty pistol.
Tim.
If you want to practice with your duty pistol (which I highly recommend). Buy something that is exactly the same as your duty pistol or practice with your duty pistol as much as possible. Otherwise, shoot whatever but don't write it off as time spent towards practice with your duty pistol.
Tim.
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Is that because of a DA trigger pull that's too weak. Someone above noted that the pull on the pro was about 4 lbs, which would be too weak for the 5.5 lbs minimum for production division. I don't know if that's true though. My M&P9 has a trigger at about 6.5, I believe, but the trigger feels like a heavy single action (although it's classified as DAO). This means that your first shot up out of the holster will be exactly the same as every subsequent shot. A real advantage for the first shot, whereas with SA/DA pistols like the Shadow you have to slowly pull the DA trigger back on the first shot as you line up the front sight on target and then adjust for the second of the controlled pair. There's really something to be said for a 3 lbs SA trigger pull on the subsequent shots with the Shadow and as a long stage will have 31 of these and only 1 of the DA shots, it's probably largely in favor of the Shadow.
I own a M&P9 and a Shadow and the Shadow is my competition gun (with the other as a ready back up). I wouldn't dream of going with the M&P as a primary as I can't shoot it half as well as the Shadow.
For IPSC, I say the CZ Shadow can't be beat.
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I disagree. I can disassemble my CZ in about 3 seconds (maybe less), just by pushing in the slide stop lever with my thumb, whereas the M&P requires you to flip down that damned sear disconnect lever with a tool (or the rod that holds the backstrap on the grip).
I have an M&P in 9mm and have owned a standard CZ85. My M&P has had a gentle polish given to the trigger and 6,000++ rounds through it. As a result it breaks cleanly a just over 4 pounds, my CZ had a decent single action trigger, but the double action would cause me to jerk the second shot if I was trying to hit quickly. As far as recoil goes, the M&P is a very easy pistol to shoot quickly I have no idea where people get the idea that recoil in an M&P is an issue, it isn't. I'm not an expert (nor do I play one on the internet) but I can deliver to aimed shots to a 6" circle fast enough from 10 yards that both casings are in the air at the same time (the shot timer says .18-.19 with a best of .16) I don't know if you'll get a review of an M&P 9 Pro, there aren't a whole lot of them out there.
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What?
I shoot a Shadow. The point of ipsc for me is to have fun. It seems like the point of ipsc for you is that you would like to have fun and increase your skill set with your duty firearm. If that is the case then you should consider shooting an M&P 40 out of your duty rig.
You will lose a couple of tenths of a second on your draw and maybe hundredth of a second on your split.
http://www.myoutdoortv.com/video/video.php?v=92WOhT1t3JYkQUZ7qkdELGC7WsUe3zdz
Given that the "platform" is the same between your duty gun and the M&P Pro, and the shooting process is identical between the two (ie, no safety and similar trigger feel, grip size, grip angle, mag release etc etc.) I think that the M&P is the best choice. Let's face it, under the threat of being killed you won't notice a 2 pound trigger pull difference, or feel an increase in recoil. I also agree with Jason though, nothing wrong with shooting IPSC with your duty rig. Also I'd suggest giving a PPC Duty Pistol match a try, you'll need a duty rig to compete as there's a Level 2 minimum and a stock pistol works just fine, all forms of competition make you a better shooter.
No s**t, checked the listing again and the pro is indeed allowed (I'm guessing as of June 15) although I remember before only the L version was on there as the pro has/had? a 4.5lbs trigger pull which put it under the limit.
Does anyone have a pro and has had it on a trigger scale? Will it be legal out of the box or are there parts swapping required?
Edit: checked up on the global village and it appears that IPSC thought the pro had a 6.5lbs trigger and approved the model for 2009. Later it was stated the pro has a 4-5.5lbs pull from the S&W rep but the gun has been left on so it is competitors responsibility to ensure it meets the 5lbs min.
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Ive seen some tests with a scale for the Pro done on a couple of different pieces and a couple of them were so close to 5lbs that I think that is why it is approved. And that is the way they come out of the factory. So that is probably why it's on the list. Plus the barrel length is taken into account as well which is under the legal limit to be in production (5").
