S&W mod 3, antique?

KotKotofeich

KotKotofeich

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Discovered in an estate. Can this be antique? What's the best way to check the caliber on these? There's a stamp "38" on the frame, does that mean it's .38sw and prohib or could it be something else?

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I think they might have been made in 38-44 but information is scarce... The straps are RCMP's doing.

The barrel in under 4" and we can't find a reg certificate. The only chance of saving it from the smelter is that it is antique in some weird .38 caliber that is not on the no-go list (like 38-44) but I don't know how to demonstrate that it is 38-44 and not 38sw.
 
The 38 on the frame doesn't mean much.

From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_3
"typically did not have the cartridge information stamped on the gun (as is standard practice for most commercial firearms)"

From what I have read the model 3's in 38 only came in 38-44 and the model 2 came in 38S&W

I would slug the bore and do a chamber cast to find out what it really is caliber wise. You may discover that it is a .44 and that the 38 was an inspector mark or something.

More info:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_2

Some good information on the 38-44 including measurements: http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/sw-3rd-model-target-38-44-reloading.html
 
Its not a S&W . Its a copy of some type so dateing it could be tough. unless its a belgium copy and has a pre 1893 proofmark on the back of the cylinder.
 
Yeah, you guys may be right. I did not think of a possibility of a copy. I assumed it was a S&W since there's writing on the top of the barrel about S&W cartridges... What would the pre-1893 proofmark look like? (I don't have immediate access to it right now, but I'll get more pictures when I can)
 
KotKotofeich said:
I think they might have been made in 38-44 but information is scarce... The straps are RCMP's doing.

The barrel in under 4" and we can't find a reg certificate. The only chance of saving it from the smelter is that it is antique in some weird .38 caliber that is not on the no-go list (like 38-44) but I don't know how to demonstrate that it is 38-44 and not 38sw.
Click to expand...

So the RCMP already have the firearm? Good luck getting it back now. Maybe you can measure it up and find out what 38 it is.
 
Not yet, still at the estate, I'm just not physically there right now. As to measuring it up, I'm not sure I can tell the difference between 38sw and 38-44 even with a chamber cast. They both headspace on the rim so I'm not sure how to tell the difference.
 
Pre 1893 belgium proofmark is a Oval with ELG inside. (No Crown ontop of the Oval) a star ontop or below the oval is ok but not a crown.
The oval with Crown ontop is post 1893 it could still be pre 1898 with the crown but they used the crown till the 1930s or so so it will be hard to date.
Its not a S&W.
might not be belgium either tho. copys can be very hard to date.
Looking at it again i think it might be belgium tho as they love to leave the screws sticking way out on there trigger gards for some reason.
check the rear face of the cylinder and the sides and face for that proofmark. then theres the 38 caliber problem unless its stamped 380 but you said it had S&W caliber markings so that meens its 38 S&W most likely so then its not antique by caliber even if it is pre 1898.
 
KotKotofeich said:
Yeah, you guys may be right. I did not think of a possibility of a copy. I assumed it was a S&W since there's writing on the top of the barrel about S&W cartridges... What would the pre-1893 proofmark look like? (I don't have immediate access to it right now, but I'll get more pictures when I can)
Click to expand...

The top one is pre 1893

 
All the help is very much appreciated. Looks like it is in .38sw then and therefore on the no go list. We will see if we can get it 12.6 registered.

Any experience out there with trying to register a prohib firearm where the original owner never registered it in the first place? I've seen reports of people registering them when they were only registered under the old system... I'll ask the question in a more appropriate section too, but maybe someone knows while I have your attention? ;)

Also, am I correct that the value would be between $50 and $100 based on that it is not antique?
 
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Sounds about right on all counts. Belgian guns have lower value generally, and prohibs are rarely worth more than $400 unless there's something very unique about them. Get cerrosafe and cast the chambers, then mic the cast to find out what the chamber dimensions are. You can also use hard wax with some yarn to keep the cast together - not as durable but works in a pinch.

If it does have to be turned in, strip it down to the frame and only give that - it'll keep them from putting it on display as a gun "taken off the streets"... and who knows, maybe the cylinder might be worth $20 or something like that.

Also, have to love the zap strapping. Have to keep it restrained lest it leap off the table and go on a rampage :p
 
38-44 sw target cartridge is aprox the length of a 357 max with the bullet seated below the mouth (entirely in the case ) and the cylinder is longer with no forcing cones also .there was actually one for sale on the ee a few years ago that peaked my interest but I didnt bite
 
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