SA80 Rifle Gets An Upgrade
- Thread starter Thomas D'Arcy McGee
- Start date
Superglide
Regular
- Location
- somewhere with a lot of standoff
I was waiting for someone to suggest upgrade to a M16/M4!
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I already did on Twitter and got jumped on by Brits (mostly non military Brits). They continue to pay a lot for a made in UK solution that is not very scalable. But it will at least look good now.
Geez, still with the SA80...painting it and adding a rail doesn't make it good
EM2 will live forever, it is their Arvo Arrow myth, if they had gone with it in the 50s instead of bowing to pressure from the Yanks with the 7.62, etc, etc.
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
Have you seen an EM2? I held a prototype version made at CAL. It was a really nice rifle, although I can't speak for how it actually operated. That said, if the SA-80 had 50 years to evolve it would likely be a great rifle...just like the M-16.
Re. the Arrow, its greatness is not a myth, people just don't understand what it was designed for, and tend to overstate what it could do.
Look at the Steyr AUG and it's evolution over the years. From the first AUG to the AUG A3SF that's out now. Over 40 years there's been some good changes.
bet they were all right handed non military brits
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
Given some time and effort you can polish a turd (not to say that I'm suggesting the AUG is a turd, don't know much about them to be honest, if I recall correctly there was a time it was pretty much state of the art).
Figures...
Superglide
Regular
- Location
- somewhere with a lot of standoff
No really a big fan of bullpups, I'm sure someone is willing to roast me on that point, I have shot most Aug, L85A2(SA80), tavor, T97, famas etc and just don't know what all the hype is other than compared to a conventional M4 or Ak it looks like a space gun. Most of them are only are only a little shorter in overall length, not that ergonomic, mediocre triggers, heavy, long trigger reset etc. Of all the countries that have a bullpup as a service rifle, UK, Australia, France, Ireland, Isreal, I'm sure there are more, most of the time their tier 1 and 2 unit use some type of M16/M4 variant so how good are bullpups really? I'm sure someone here knows more about this than me, so let the slags begin!
No, you pretty well summed it up. There's a reason why the M16/M4 type is accepted so widespread by various national armed forces, they work well in combat conditions. Even the French army is replacing their FAMAS with HK416 carbines.
That has more to do with the French having next to no capability for domestic arms production. They can't service their existing rifles, let alone build new ones. The French having to buy thier rifles from the boche? That must have been embarrassing.
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
95% of the population is actually wired to be right handed from birth. That is why most left handed people are right eye dominant and all sorts of messed up while shooting. The SA80 performs better than pretty much anyone who will have to use it. Kind of like the SKS.
When I found out what it was going to weigh, I suggested we buy our own Armalites. I was told "You're taking the personal weapon concept too far"
Bullpup has some advantages. It is not the best for sports shooting or "gun fighting", but for the regular grunt it is a great system. It is a much better system for attaching under slung GL. It is also a better carrying system from body mechanic point of view, when it comes to doing the "force test" kinda of activities, like running, hitting the ground and getting up again. It is also more compact. A big plus in urban environment, especially regular grunts are also carrying stuff like light anti-armour weapons and juggling with things like radios. it is easier to climb walls and jump through thresholds with a bullpup. It is also easier to move within tight quarters with bullpup. Finally, one can smoke a cigarette while firing a bullpup, what not to like?
The typical problems of bullpens are mostly design related. FAMAS, AUG and even the VHS are outdated or DOA. Bullpups are like Jeeps, they are not the fastest running cars around but it will go to lots of places. Most people, even though those who can't drive at top speed, wants a faster 4X4 rally car. Most of these people are better served by bullpups but everyone wants a faster car.
The typical problems of bullpens are mostly design related. FAMAS, AUG and even the VHS are outdated or DOA. Bullpups are like Jeeps, they are not the fastest running cars around but it will go to lots of places. Most people, even though those who can't drive at top speed, wants a faster 4X4 rally car. Most of these people are better served by bullpups but everyone wants a faster car.
Greentips, I love your explanation on the advantages of bullpups.
I handled the original SA80 in '89 in Wainright. It made the Sten gun look like a lovingly crafted piece of art.
It was cheaper than dirt. It flexed. It had protrusions that caught on your webbing and clothing.
It had oversized buttons that would rub you and drop the mag out involuntarily.
It made me grateful to get my SMG back.
They have upgraded it three times since at a cost that would have justified replacing it each time they upgraded it.
It suits the British mentality of taking something borderline adequate and tinkering with it.
In the UK, the tradition of craftsmanship is, joining two pieces of metal that don't that aren't meant to go together.
If you want an amazing read on it, I suggest, "The Last Enfield" or I forget if it might have called, "The Reluctant Enfield" by Collector grade Publications.
It was written by a royal marine armourer adn it is scathing to say the least.
It is not very often when I get emotional and angry when I read a technical treatise.
At least with the latest upgrade, they can grate cheese with it like the rest of us.
However, since North America has gone over completely to twist off beer caps, we really should rething the necessitiy for all that rail space.
I handled the original SA80 in '89 in Wainright. It made the Sten gun look like a lovingly crafted piece of art.
It was cheaper than dirt. It flexed. It had protrusions that caught on your webbing and clothing.
It had oversized buttons that would rub you and drop the mag out involuntarily.
It made me grateful to get my SMG back.
They have upgraded it three times since at a cost that would have justified replacing it each time they upgraded it.
It suits the British mentality of taking something borderline adequate and tinkering with it.
In the UK, the tradition of craftsmanship is, joining two pieces of metal that don't that aren't meant to go together.
If you want an amazing read on it, I suggest, "The Last Enfield" or I forget if it might have called, "The Reluctant Enfield" by Collector grade Publications.
It was written by a royal marine armourer adn it is scathing to say the least.
It is not very often when I get emotional and angry when I read a technical treatise.
At least with the latest upgrade, they can grate cheese with it like the rest of us.
However, since North America has gone over completely to twist off beer caps, we really should rething the necessitiy for all that rail space.
