Sad Game Management...........

Same thing in sask we are having problems with cougars and a few wolves and numerous coyotes. The bad winters and excessive tags have really taken their toll. Our wildlife president had the same type of letter that went out in our outdoor edge magazine. He suggested we all write letters to the government in regards to the missing wildlife. I hope people speak up.
 
Gatehouse said:
Hunters need to talk to thier MLAs
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Talking with my MLA (Skeena) would be next to useless.
What a lot of people here in BC don't realize is that the folks at Fish and Wildlife have a website called the Angling, Hunting Trapping Engagement site where they ask for public input into proposed regulation changes. At the risk of being banned, here is a link,
ht tp://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/ahte/user. Sign up as a user and you can provide your input directly to the people who actually make the decisions not some windbag politician.
Just last week I was able to provide input on proposed regulations regarding bag limits for wolves. They are proposing that, in many areas of the province, that there be NO bag limit. Currently it is 3 here in Region 6 Skeena. The reason they are proposing these changes is to address the very issue of predation that was raised in the letter posted by 'Looky on behalf of Mr slow burning gunpowder.
There is also a draft management document regarding Grey wolves that is an interesting read and provides some of the science behind the rationale to increase the bag limits.
 
billdick said:
Same thing in sask we are having problems with cougars and a few wolves and numerous coyotes. The bad winters and excessive tags have really taken their toll. Our wildlife president had the same type of letter that went out in our outdoor edge magazine. He suggested we all write letters to the government in regards to the missing wildlife. I hope people speak up.
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WInter, IMO, has the greatest impact on deer. Exess tags are issued when populations are excessive and need to be brought down
 
Someone should have done a bit more research before writing that. I don't recall any provincial organization or Wildlife Federation indicating that the drop in deer numbers is on account of CWD. And he's also completely wrong, there hasn't been a case of CWD in Manitoba. He states "It appears to be spreading to BC", then goes on to say "I hope we don't have to deal with this disease here." :confused:

In provinces that have had harsh winters in the past few years, it's no doubt that this is the major contributing factor to the decline, mainly areas of AB, SK and MB.

That said, predators and uncontrolled hunting certainly play a large part in areas, and since weather is the one thing that can't be controlled or governed, we need to revise how laws and legislation are written in order to attempt to control these contributors to the population decline.
 
Deer and elk #'s are down here. Wolves on the other hand have been coming in here the last couple of years. Our club has a predator call you can borrow. It WILL be put to use this year.
 
It will all work out. I dont know why everyones panties are getting in a twist.

High predator numbers are unsustainable with low deer populations so either the deer population is doing just fine and can support the current pressures, or the predators will crash the following year leading to an increase in deer number.

What people dont realize is the rise and crash in predator and prey numbers is a natural and healthy process in the ecosystem. Constantly high deer numbers are unsustainable, and as others above have mentioned hunting alone cannot control these numbers. Just as there are a bad year for apples or tomatoes, it is just as normal to be a bad year for deer. Trying to change that is going against the natural order of things, and in the end will not be beneficial to any party.
 
dannyd123 said:
It will all work out. I dont know why everyones panties are getting in a twist.

High predator numbers are unsustainable with low deer populations so either the deer population is doing just fine and can support the current pressures, or the predators will crash the following year leading to an increase in deer number.

What people dont realize is the rise and crash in predator and prey numbers is a natural and healthy process in the ecosystem. Constantly high deer numbers are unsustainable, and as others above have mentioned hunting alone cannot control these numbers. Just as there are a bad year for apples or tomatoes, it is just as normal to be a bad year for deer. Trying to change that is going against the natural order of things, and in the end will not be beneficial to any party.
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The problem with letting it be is that before the predators crash, they will have eaten most of their prey and will then move into agricultural areas and the suburbs.

It will then take a very long time for game animals to recover from very low numbers.
 
Around the area where I grew up there were numerous Wolf kills in the early eighties this decimated the wolf population down to none for about 20 years , after 15 years the Deer population had exploded , right around that time the cougar population went way up and wolves started slowly to enter the mix again around the 17-20 year mark . At last count there were 4-5 packs in a small area numbering around 30 wolves .The deer are constantly on the run , on one small island that we hunted you could hear the wolf pack running a deer around the island sounding like fire truck sirens as they got closer and farther away for the 18 hours we were anchored near by . Conservation involves a balance of harvesting populations of both predators and prey alike . It also is important to take a balance of male and female game where legal .
 
MiG25 said:
The problem with letting it be is that before the predators crash, they will have eaten most of their prey and will then move into agricultural areas and the suburbs.

It will then take a very long time for game animals to recover from very low numbers.
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The one thing you can count on is farmers killing intrusive predators. Even then, the winter will end up killing the lot of them, and will allow a herbivore population explosion the following year.

And game herbivores dont take long to recover when their food sources are plenty due to the lack of foraging. Again by nature, they are used to it. This is a simple, popular and very measurable example of this, but is found in every habitat here in North america with every game species our modern society hunts:

Lynx-Hare_cycle.gif


http://www.occc.edu/biologylabs/Documents/Homeostasis/Lynx and Hare Populations.htm


I do agree with Mil Specs in that we should be careful on the amount of harvesting and the ### proportion as this may bias populations if left unchecked.
 
We are talking deer, elk and moose, not rabbits. The cycle will be much longer than in that graph because rabbits breed like... rabbits.

Farmers have a heck of a time killing wolves. And there are issues besides for straight losses, cattle hastled by wolves become more dangerous to work with and also gain less weight and beef is sold by the pound.

Wolves also pose a very real threat to hunting, as hunter success goes down, recruitment of hunters goes down. In time the political will to fight the anti's will disappear.

In BC, wolves are now in areas where they have not been seen in hundred years.

It is not specific about wolves, but I do think that youth and new hunters should be able to get an "any deer" tag.
 
bearkilr said:
Someone should have done a bit more research before writing that. I don't recall any provincial organization or Wildlife Federation indicating that the drop in deer numbers is on account of CWD. And he's also completely wrong, there hasn't been a case of CWD in Manitoba. He states "It appears to be spreading to BC", then goes on to say "I hope we don't have to deal with this disease here." :confused:

In provinces that have had harsh winters in the past few years, it's no doubt that this is the major contributing factor to the decline, mainly areas of AB, SK and MB.

That said, predators and uncontrolled hunting certainly play a large part in areas, and since weather is the one thing that can't be controlled or governed, we need to revise how laws and legislation are written in order to attempt to control these contributors to the population decline.
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I agree with you 100%. I may draw some flak for this but, as far as I'm concerned for here in Mb, the one tag system should stay in place for a number of years. I know of guys who shoot more then their one deer, they brag about it. These are the same guys who sit and wonder why the deer numbers are down. The deer herd cannot sustain the hunting pressure of a 4 tag system for years and we are seeing that effect now. Yes I know we had a couple harsh winters here, but the multi tag system does not help as well. So I hope the one tag system stays here for a long time, as well I'll be trying to thin out the coyote population as the best I can.
 
Another big killer of wildlife is collisions with cars, and here in BC we have a government monopoly on auto insurance. If it wasn't the government, who lose money printing money, one would think they could track auto collisions with game and be able to regulate management regionally better year by year. Instead, regulations are printed every 2 years, and are almost identical to 10 years ago. If for instance there was a region with high collisions young hunters and seniors could be granted a any deer season. Instead they get killed by auto's and feed the coyote's in the ditch.
 
shockwave said:
I agree with you 100%. I may draw some flak for this but, as far as I'm concerned for here in Mb, the one tag system should stay in place for a number of years. I know of guys who shoot more then their one deer, they brag about it. These are the same guys who sit and wonder why the deer numbers are down. The deer herd cannot sustain the hunting pressure of a 4 tag system for years and we are seeing that effect now. Yes I know we had a couple harsh winters here, but the multi tag system does not help as well. So I hope the one tag system stays here for a long time, as well I'll be trying to thin out the coyote population as the best I can.
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All true and I agree, except you forget that it's pretty much impossible to manage a population when a large percentage of those hunters harvesting deer don't use or require tags. Those laws need to be revised as well before you over-legislate licensed hunters.
 
I'm inclined to agree with dannyd - consistantly high prey species population can lead to over grazing, spread of disease (CWD, Tuberculosis being the two most common) etc. It isn't natural or realistic to expect consistent high populations. I get that predators eat people's livelyhood in farmed animals as well as animals for guided hunts, trapping etc, but that's how it works.... it's up to us to suck it up instead of just blaming an animal that'll eventually go into a natural periodic decline once it has reached a population peak.

dannyd123 said:
It will all work out. I dont know why everyones panties are getting in a twist.

High predator numbers are unsustainable with low deer populations so either the deer population is doing just fine and can support the current pressures, or the predators will crash the following year leading to an increase in deer number.

What people dont realize is the rise and crash in predator and prey numbers is a natural and healthy process in the ecosystem. Constantly high deer numbers are unsustainable, and as others above have mentioned hunting alone cannot control these numbers. Just as there are a bad year for apples or tomatoes, it is just as normal to be a bad year for deer. Trying to change that is going against the natural order of things, and in the end will not be beneficial to any party.
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Found a bunch of wolf tracks where I hunt this fall. Pack seemed to be moving between one big grazing lease to another. Seeme they are eating more beef then venison. I'm fine with that as one of the leases is held by a family of pricks who are antihunter to an extreme, and can't read their lease agreement about allowing access after nov 1st.

The other lease is great, nov 1st the cattle are off and gates open.
 
woodchopper said:
can't read their lease agreement about allowing access after nov 1st.

.
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Is that actually specified in their lease? If it is and there are no other conditions, you are good to go. It's important to check out the conditions of each lease as they can vary widely.
 
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