Safe room is good advice

[TPK]

12 guage birdshot is at best a questionable home defense round.

.410 birdshot is nothing short of a joke!

If your chosen ammo can't penetrate drywall, how do you expect it to stop a badguy hell bent on attacking you or your wife?

As you know, bird shot is bird shot, it isn't "smaller" or some how "less mass" just because it's used in a .410, it's the same as what's used in a 12G or 20G or what ever gauge. There will be less shot in the .410 cartridge but in fact the .410 is a much higher pressure cartridge and is listed as lethal beyond the range of a 12G.

 

[Dukester]

I saw that clip you posted, I am pretty sure it was that kid in Detroit right?

Now did that kid beat his attacker to death before he walked to the road? As I recall he got up and STUMBLED to the road before collapsing AND he almost died in hospital. And if his attacker had stuck around to finish the job there would have been nothing the kid could have done to stop him.

Sounds pretty incapacitating to me.

Klaus ya gotta realize, your real life experience and common sense mean nothing in the CGN realm. A youtube video, or something a friend of a friend tells you - gospel! lol

 

[J.P.]

It only takes 1 buckshot pellet to turn someones heart to jello!

The birdshot lacks the penetration to get there!

Overpenetration is a problem easily addressed with a well laid out and practiced defence plan. This will serve you much better than loading up your gun with birdshot!

birdshot doesn't go through the drywall and kill your children.

A plan? What's the plan when BG points a gun at you while standing in front of your child's bedroom door?

You aren't wrong, but you are far from right at the same time.

 

[supernova]

I keep a loaded cannon in the living room, pointed at the door. The dog's bark collar is wired to light it off. 6 lbs of nails, screws, bolts and gummy bears should do the trick. If not, the doorbell is wired to enough TNT to level the house so the bastard doesnt walk away with anything. Pretty much not worried about it...

 

[nullshine]

Last time i had this argument I posted a youtube video of a guy who got shot point blank in the chest with a shotgun and was able to get up and walk a good distance to the road to get help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BACnPBdsH20

Not sure if this is the one, but this guy was shot three times.

Arm @ 10 feet
Chest @ ??? (the same or less)
Head @ point blank (although apparently glancing angle?)

Plus gets his teeth smashed in with the buttstock.

Yes, he almost dies. But if your goal is to stop an attack/home invasion/whatever... do you really want to do ALL THAT? And still have the guy be somewhat mobile?

In the video the kid says it was a beautiful sunny day, so I doubt he was wearing any thick clothing.

His "friend" also 100% got the drop on him with the first shot, and the kid had no idea wtf was going on.

Even with the odds stacked so far against him, he still lived, and was able to walk to get help. With 3 shots easily within home defense distances.

 

[mlehtovaara]

birdshot doesn't go through the drywall and kill your children.

A plan? What's the plan when BG points a gun at you while standing in front of your child's bedroom door?

You aren't wrong, but you are far from right at the same time.

Are you serious?

The plan would involve getting your family out of harms way before engaging the home invader/attacker.

A dog or alarm to alert you and a strong door with multiple locks so that it would not be easy for an intruder to get in, and if he did you would have time to round your family up and put them somewhere safe and out of the way if you do need to shoot.

Have a plan that everyone in the house knows to immediately follow, and have a plan to set up your position to defend your family that will take into account the layout of your house.

Putting a gun beside your bed, without a practiced plan, or discussing such things with your family is hardly an effective way of securing your household!

 

[mlehtovaara]

I saw that clip you posted, I am pretty sure it was that kid in Detroit right?

Now did that kid beat his attacker to death before he walked to the road? As I recall he got up and STUMBLED to the road before collapsing AND he almost died in hospital. And if his attacker had stuck around to finish the job there would have been nothing the kid could have done to stop him.

Sounds pretty incapacitating to me.

If the kid had a gun, he had the ability to fire back! That is all there is to it.

If someone breaks into your home with the intention of doing you harm, are you gonna shoot him just enough so that he is still capable of walking?

If he can get up and walk, he can still shoot you, or stab you, or whatever it may be.

 

[mlehtovaara]

Klaus ya gotta realize, your real life experience and common sense mean nothing in the CGN realm. A youtube video, or something a friend of a friend tells you - gospel! lol

Please show me my post that lacks common sense.

How many of your LE departments use birdshot?

Klaus's experiences are only after the fact, and unless he watched the guy get shot, and saw how quickly they died, his experience doesn't settle this at all.

Like I already said, I have no doubt that birdshot can be deadly but in my opinion it is not reliable in putting someone down and out quick enough to be used in a defensive situation

 

[klaus enuff]

If the kid WOULD have had a gun he WOULD have had the ability to fire back at his attacker. As it was he was at the mercy of his assailant. The kid is lucky more than anything. Your example is more about the ineptitude of his attacker than the efficacy of the load used.

And God forbid if I ever have to use a gun in self defence I would shoot until they were no longer a threat. On the ground at my mercy would mean no longer a threat. I suppose you are advocating I walk up and finish the job. I wonder how well that would go over in the inevitable trial I would be in court over.

If the kid had a gun, he had the ability to fire back! That is all there is to it.

If someone breaks into your home with the intention of doing you harm, are you gonna shoot him just enough so that he is still capable of walking?

If he can get up and walk, he can still shoot you, or stab you, or whatever it may be.

 

[supernova]

Please show me my post that lacks common sense.

How many of your LE departments use birdshot?

Klaus's experiences are only after the fact, and unless he watched the guy get shot, and saw how quickly they died, his experience doesn't settle this at all.

Like I already said, I have no doubt that birdshot can be deadly but in my opinion it is not reliable in putting someone down and out quick enough to be used in a defensive situation

So who did you see get shot with birdshot? Seriosuly, your defending yourself against something someone said to someone else...nuf said

 

[king66]

mlehtovaara, for what its worth.

there is a video on you tube called "870 remington home defense test, multiple walls, day 2". bird shot went threw 6 sheets spaced as if it was walls and halls. 1 & 2 drywall sheets (width same as wall) had a entrance/exit of about 2". 3 & 4 (width same as wall) spaced 3' to represent a hall had about a 4" entrance/exit hole then another space 3' to represent a hall and 5 & 6 (width same as wall). 5 had been pepperd witch penatration to the 6th.

so i'm not sure why you think bird shot isn't a good home defense round. imho most shootings in that setting would be under 10 feet. at that range a hilting gun would kill. lol

 

[Boomer]

Seeing that this thread has degenerated into the birdshot vs buckshot for defense discussion, I'll weigh in. If we compare a 9mm and a .45 we have a 124 gr bullet vs a 230 gr. But in the case of a load of birdshot, from a 12 ga, you are putting a full ounce, or more, on the target at the same speed as the 9mm, and across the room that pattern is pretty tight. I did see this put into action one morning when a fellow down the street from me killed a polar bear with a load of high velocity #2s to the face from a range of about a foot. I don't think the local gang bangers are as tough as a 600 pound bear.

 

[king66]

i would use 00 buck. but saying that i wouldn't under estimate bird shot or anything else.

 

[Plink]

[youtube]6xJDIe6eUsA[/youtube]

 

[rrotzetter]

Ha ha ha ha you can punch someone in the gut and get him to drop instantly I have faith in any one of my guns 12g bird shot hell id even trust target load I bet they pack more of a punch then my fist lol