Sako Carbonlight introduction, compared against the Kimber Adirondack

Ardent said:
I want an aluminium and decent one piece alternative to the optilocks without adding a conversion rail.
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Leupolds are the way to go, I think.
Sako makes ring mounts as well, but they look big and chunky compared to the Leupolds.
Also, I must apologize for the derailment of this thread, I appreciate the review of two fine rifles from someone who has actually used and shot both of them.
 
Riverboy said:
Leupolds are the way to go, I think.
Sako makes ring mounts as well, but they look big and chunky compared to the Leupolds.
Also, I must apologize for the derailment of this thread, I appreciate the review of two fine rifles from someone who has actually used and shot both of them.
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Don't they make the windage thing even worse, and no spherical insert to help? Where do you put the ringmounts so that the tubes are parallel?
 
Not off topic at all, I appreciate expansions and additions on a mountain rifle thread.

I'll do some research and thanks doublegun I'd been considered modifying the gun to affix a set of proper light rings...

These are the chunks I'm using now. Side note, just pulled the recoil pad and was pleased to see a flat carbon butt with a minor rim, easily worked with if you wanted to save a bit more weight and eliminate the pad. The pad is actually admirably light though.

 
I'm kind of disappointed it's a finnlite in a nice stock. Definitely a fix for the weakest point of the finnlite, but for an extra $2000, I'll take the Kimber please. I bet dollars to donuts once the honeymoon phase wears off you reach for the Kimber more often than not.

How many mountain rifles are we at now Angus?
 
double gun said:
I don't want to argue, as I'm not an engineer but my findings are considerably different so I see them (Sako's integral bases) quite differently. Based on owning dozens of Sako's from 17 Remington upto 375h&h over multiple decades. (I need to mention, adding a bases to a rifle with integral bases is stupid in my opinion. )

1) if your ring isn't vertically split, but rather fixed on one side with a clamp on the other - yes absolutely. Thats why Warne premier mounts were vertically split moving forward or backward had zero efferent side to side. That's also why all brands are sold with mounting directions on where on the dovetail to mount the ring. Optilock ringmounts are machined with a spherical bushing to compensate for any misalignment and they also explain how to gain more windage in either direction if needed. But they are indeed meant to mount the ring in one general spot not forward or backwards.

2) they (sako)promote the tightening under recoil as a positive, unlike screws that the more recoil the looser they become. Leupold mounts are probably the most common for sako rifles (here in NA)and use a single dinky (#8-32 if I remember right) clamp screw to secure the ring to the base. I've not once including my time spent on the sako collectors forum ever heard of them failing. Could it happen? Sure but it's certainly not common as you would suggest. (People seem to be able to wreck just about anything)Optilocks both the 2-piece and the one piece ringmounts use soft screws. I have no defence to that one, these screws are notoriously soft. Sako has recently switched from Allen to torx drive so I'm hoping they upgraded their screws at the same time. It should be mentioned that the ringmounts, not only use a much beefier (M6-1) clamp screw, but the clamp is also contained forward and back by the ring body itself, and if that's not enough, they use a recoil pin in the rear ring. If you are worried about the soft clamp screw, I have bought properly heat treated (button head cap screws)screws at my fastener place for something like $0.10 a screw and you will not have an issue with them being soft. (I still have spares if someone needs any.) You aren't moving or breaking a properly mounted 1-piece ringmount.

3) I'm not sure what this has to do with anything, but again the ring mount does have a spherical bushing to correct any possible misalignment if you are worried. I typically check and correct any misalignment on any rifle I mount optics to.

4) they aren't different heights.

5) they are integral, so no not reversible.

Again please don't take this as an attack. It's not meant to be, only my findings as a sako guy.


*F me, there I go hijacking again. I'm under the weather and spending way too much time on the internet. Ignore my posts. This time I'm done, I swear it.
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Cheers, friend :)

My mistake on 4, I guess. I clamped a machinists block on the front base and there was room for a pretty decent feeler guage between the block and the rear base. I took that to be deliberate, not a dimensional tolerance issue.

As for 2) that sounds like "it's not a bug, it's a feature!" marketing BS. The proper tension for anscrew is 90% of yield, so I think they didn't intend to increase the tension under recoil.

Also completely 100% zero offence or attack meant. I value your perspective, and I think Sako's are terrific. Everything has little issues. :)
 
Ardent said:
Not off topic at all, I appreciate expansions and additions on a mountain rifle thread.

I'll do some research and thanks doublegun I'd been considered modifying the gun to affix a set of proper light rings...

These are the chunks I'm using now. Side note, just pulled the recoil pad and was pleased to see a flat carbon butt with a minor rim, easily worked with if you wanted to save a bit more weight and eliminate the pad. The pad is actually admirably light though.

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So let's make them in aluminum. No prob. Or would you prefer Ti? :)
 
double gun said:
This isn't a hijack.

Those are the original 2-piece optilocks. Throw them in the junk drawer.... actually sell them on here and put the money towards a different set. Since riverboy has shown you leupolds, here are a couple others. First is an old set of Warne premier fixed mounts (when they were machined from billet not sintered). They are vertically split and didn't change your windage moving them forward or back. These have been on my 7rem mag for at least 2 decades without issue.
IMG_0339_zpsnhlxrehb.jpg

And optilock ringmounts (1-piece design) my personal favourite of today's offerings, I like the bushings, the recoil pin, the 4 top screws, captured clamping gib, and most of all they are actually stainless - not plated. (Rear ring, recoil pin visible)
IMG_0340_zpszqhkpf3f.jpg
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Noted all counts thanks man.

And cam1936 it varies, but at the moment half dozen ish, three dedicated, one that works for a living. Likely will put my ti 98 into frequent mountain service though the chambering isn't focused on that, more often than not my rifle's concern is Grizzlies and keeping up professional appearances. Always after a handgun weight rifle.
 
Great thread, surprised to see the Sako was the winner. You can't fake fit and finish though. If it was weight alone, a tikka superlight is 5.9lbs ($1000), add a McMillan or wildcat ($1000 or less) and you're at 5.4Lbs.

Can someone tell kimber I need a mountain ascent or adirondack in 22-250 or 223 please?
 
Riverboy said:
Disapointed that Doublegun deleted his posts from here. Ardent, it's a fine review of 2 sort of similar rifles, and I thank you for it.
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I agree. I thought doublegun's posts added a lot to the conversation. I definitely took a liking to him based on this thread (didn't know him before).

I hope I didn't inadvertently offend. Certainly not my intention.
 
Not at all gentlemen. I just didn't like where any of my posts (this thread and others) were headed. Better for me to shut up sometimes - nothing personal or to do with this thread.
 
I've found the discussion and comparisons very interesting!

My only comment is about the Sako mounting system. I have a half dozen Sako rifles in my collection, have used them all for some time. I have never had any problem with mounting a scope on a Sako, with the single exception of the previously mentioned soft screws on the Optilocks. (Glad they went to Torx.) But I've always chosen Sako mounts. Never had one loosen, never had one fail. I suspect the ones that have failed for others were assembled incorrectly or they were fitted with third party mounts.

The Leupold mounts may exhibit problems with alignment or pressure on the clamp screw, Sako mounts do not. Properly designed ring mounts for this rifle are held by the precisely machined tapered dovetails and by the recoil stop built in to the rear receiver bridge and rear ring. The front ring should be tight in the front receiver dovetail before the clamp screw is tightened. The rear ring should be tight against the recoil stop. The scope cannot move side to side or put undue pressure on the clamp screw when it is mounted this way.

The old windage adjustable ringmounts actually allowed for lateral adjustment if desired. I still use them and like them. They had a good system for keeping the scope centered and aligned fore-aft if the front mount needed to be placed further forward for a long scope/action or rearward for a short scope. The new two piece Optilocks are very heavy, but the more expensive Optilock ring mounts are more reasonable.

I think most of the real world problems that Sako rifle owners have had with scope mounting is when they cheaped out and bought after market scope mounts, or failed to follow directions.
 
Figured that wouldn't go unnoticed. ;) It's a wonderful little rifle but looking at the money to basically turn it into a smoother Adirondack I realised I already have an Adirondack that does everything I'm after. I'd still rate it higher than the Kimber, however the Kimber is in my equipment locker already and is sighted in with the scope and load I like. And with the titanium M98 wrapping up both the worker and well past Sako ends of the ultralight spectrum are covered nicely for me. This said guns this price have a much smaller pool of buyers and I'll be happy if t stays around a good while as it's likely to. And I have a habit of buying things just to try em, never could get to know a rifle at the counter. :)
 
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