Sako Extractor

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matt88

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When I was having my 338-06 built, I talked to a few smiths and they suggested having a sako extractor put on my model 700, I never really looked into it, what are the pros of this? Does this change it from a push feed? Sorry just a little nieve!:p
Thanks
 
The only reason to do it was when Benchrest shooters did not have a great selection of Benchrest actions for the 6mm PPC case.

If you have a 700 action that uses the .222 boltface, the .06 bolt face or the magnum bolt face - There is absolutely no need to do it. Personally I think it is the worst thing you could do to a 700 action.

This has been discussed a lot. If you do a search you should find some long threads about it.

Here is one link:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49835
 
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I have owned dozens of Remington actions over the years. I have never had a problem extracting a case with the factory installed offering. I have read of potential dangers with this conversion.
 
Sako Extractors

I had two of my rifles (both with brand new 700 actions) break the extractors on competition day last summer. I had both bolts sent out to my gunsmith @ Ultimate Accuracy to install sako extractors. I have not had a single problem since. I have heard stories from both sides of the fence. He also was suprised at them breaking and thought the regular 700 extractor should have held up. The choice was up to me and Sako extractors from what I understood were pretty tuff. They have not let me down since. Just my two bits.
 
Sorry man, I have a hard time believing that a brand new, unaltered Rem700 extractor broke inside normal parameters of use, let alone two. Either those loads nearly welded in or the extractors were tinkered. Not trying to be spiteful, but I have had those extractors tear rims off brass (old dominion loads that shouldn't have been fired). Sako extractors are great, but they are unneedful, and they allow gases, in the circumstance of a case rupture, to escape undirected towards the shooter. They can also effect accuracy if installed improperly.
 
A Sako extractor is excellent.........................in a Sako....:D

With the Sako Extractor conversion, you negate the Rem "Three Rings of Steel" feature.

The case head is completely surrounded by the steel of the bolt face, the steel of the chamber, and the steel of the reciever.

As said above, if you install a Sako extractor in a Rem bolt, gases and bits of metal can come back into your face if a case lets go.:eek:

SKBY.
 
Sako extractors have been touted for serious military sniper rifles. One of the main reasons for this is that in the field it is apparently easier to replace a Sako-type extractor. Another cited advantage is for the reliability in extraction under life-and-death situations.

From a military standpoint, this thinking makes some sense. But I can't really see the need for it in a civillian setting.
 
For those that have anxiety attacks over Sako extractors. Don't use them.You will note that Sako uses them on Tikka rifles and they don't have the blast shield bolt guide on them ! Check out the Sako extractor set up on the Lawton Rifle Barrel web site. Placed in the right lug of the bolt. Remember push feed Winchester and Savage bolt heads ?Gives the advantages of the Sako extractor and still burys the bolt head and extractor inside the barrel extension.
This can be done on the Remington bolt as well as the Lawton action is an accurized version of the 700. This is the same company that makes the actions for the Cheytack rifle. Obviously strength is not an issue.
 
I have cut and pasted Guntech's Explanation here in this thread for those who haven't checked out the link he posted.

Hope you don't mind Dennis.;)

guntech said:
It is a terrible thing to do to a Remington action. In the U.S. there have been injuries and a death associated with this conversion.

Sako extractors in a Remington. They are strong BUT they are not as strong and safe as the original 700 set up. Remington's 3 rings of steel surrounding the case head support the brass under extreme pressure as no other set up does. The case does not rupture due to all the support. You may not be able to open the bolt, and when removing the barrel you find the case head "welded" to the bolt face. I have seen that with a 222. The brass almost had to be machined off the bolt. I had to install a new extractor and there was no other damage to the rifle. I had one case of a 303 British fired in a 7mm Mag... I had to remove the barrel as the bolt was locked shut, but the case removed from the bolt face then with no damage at all. These incidents show how great the design is of the 700 system. I do not think there is a better extractor system. That is my belief anyway. I have seen other commercial actions blown to pieces or damaged beyond repair. I have never seen that of a 700. (Not to say it has not happened, but it must be rare)

The angle of ejection is changed a lot with the Sako conversion. Take a factory 700 bolt and look at the face of it. Take a case and insert it into the bolt face and observe where the ejector wants to push it. That angle is only slightly higher than straight sideways. With the Sako extractor fitted as close to the top of the right locking lug as you can, the angle of ejection with a fired case is high enough to always hit a 30mm scope tube with low mounts, or the windage adjustment turret. A fired case is shorter than a loaded round and has no weight at the front of it to help hold it down. I found out all this when I did the first and only conversion I have done, on a customer’s request. The conversion was done perfectly and as close to the locking lug as possible. I encountered no problems doing it. I recommend not doing the conversion now.

With a Sako style conversion, you remove the total support of the design when you machine a slot length wise to install the Sako extractor. This causes a weaker area where one of the 3 rings of steel has now been removed. Total support has been reduced, and if a case ruptures the gases may blow back through this area with the extractor. It is the weakest link in the support of the case now.

I feel the conversion to Sako style is unsafe... it isn't as strong or safe as the original 700 extractor and the angle of ejection changes a lot... enough to cause some people problems.

I have had very few problems with 700 extractors.
Click to expand...

IMHO, the Sako conversion is over rated and can be a HUGE pain in the a$$ if not done properly.I have seen a "shoddy" Sako conversion and there were extraction & ejection problem, plus it looked like a sh*t job as well.:rolleyes:

As Retired Sniper/SOG Team Leader Maj. John L. Plaster has stated, he has NEVER seen a Rem700 extractor fail on the range or in the field.:D

SKBY.
 
The Lawton, Savage and Winchester extractors are positioned so that they are backed up by a locking shoulder when the action is closed. In the event of a casehead failure, the extractor and its related bits cannot depart the rifle. This is not the case with an altered Remington.
If a gunsmith chooses to install a Sako style extractor in a Remington bolt, the 'smith is assuming liability in the event of a casehead failure. A knowledgeable shooter who has the alteration done is also taking responsibilty for compromising the original, and very superior, breeching system. People are responsible for the decisions they make.
I suspect that many of these conversions are done because of style - they are a flavour of the month. Just one of the modifications that are done to create a "state of the art" Remington based sniper rifle.
Does the US Army or the USMC have Sako style extractors installed in the bolts of their Remington based sniper rifles?
 
The new rifle Remington is bringing out in 338 Lapua uses a Badger Ordnance extractor which is external like the sako, I guess someone should let Remington know that their new tactical rifle is un-safe
 
6ppc said:
The new rifle Remington is bringing out in 338 Lapua uses a Badger Ordnance extractor which is external like the sako, I guess someone should let Remington know that their new tactical rifle is un-safe
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Remington sent me a picture of it quite some time ago. It is different than the Sako conversion and even though it was supposed to be out last year I will be surprised if Remington ever actually produce it other than samples...
 
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I was looking at the rifle on display at the Shot Show in Florida,they had it in thier Law Enforcement/ Military both, true its not a Sako extractor but its the same if you want to argue about safety issues, they still have a cut in the bolt and it is actually wider than the sako
 
Its actually a M-16 style extractor. I have also seen M-14 extractors installed in Remington bolts. Sako looking but with a pin through the bolt to hold it in place. In the unlikely event of a case rupture I expect the retention pin could shear off. I am referring to the 338 Lapua boltIi saw for the Rem 700 long action.
 
matt88 said:
Thanks guys! The one smith that suggested that was a moron in my mind, thats why he never built it:D
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There are alot of gunsmiths installing Sako extractors on guns and not all of them are morons, in alot of cases the owners of the guns specify them like that, I couldn't imagine how many rifles so equipped are out there but you seldom hear of any problems that are not related to faulty installations or bad reloading practices.
bigbull
 
That is the point, though. Obviously faulty installation will ruin the bolt, and the extractor may not function properly. And bad handloading practices can precipitate an unfortunate incident - an unfortunate incident that would likely have been much less serious if the breeching had not been compromised. Of the various rifle designs in existance, some are better designed than others. Some designs will protect the shooter, others don't do as good a job. An unaltered Remington is one of the very best, from the standpoint of protecting the shooter.
If the installation of a Sako style extractor is important to the owner, and if a 'smith is prepared to do it, well, a couple of adults are making a decision that may or may not have consequences.
Whether the installation actually results in a better rifle is an open question.
 
In all this I want to say that I still think the Remington is a very good extractor and I would not change any of my rifles today for a Sako extractor. I like Sako extractors on Sako's not on Remingtons!
Skullboy mentioned that major Plaster stated that he had never seen a Remington extractor fail, well good for the major but I have seen them fail and so has a close hunting buddy of mine! The extractor itself did not fail or deform in any way but it did fail to do what it was designed to do "extract a fired shell" this is where a lot of the confussion about the rem extractor comes from, they don't actually break but simply fail to extract. The extractor itself is made and installed in such a way that it exerts a very powerfull grip on the rim no question about that but it is a very small grip and not even close to the surface area of a Mauser, Enfield P17 or Win. M70 etc. In the events of a difficult extraction the result is a torn rim and a stuck case in the chamber. The extracting power of any firearm is directly related to the surface area that the extractor covers. The bigger the extractor the more reliable the extraction!
bigbull
 
bigbull said:
In all this I want to say that I still think the Remington is a very good extractor and I would not change any of my rifles today for a Sako extractor. I like Sako extractors on Sako's not on Remingtons!
Skullboy mentioned that major Plaster stated that he had never seen a Remington extractor fail, well good for the major but I have seen them fail and so has a close hunting buddy of mine! The extractor itself did not fail or deform in any way but it did fail to do what it was designed to do "extract a fired shell" this is where a lot of the confussion about the rem extractor comes from, they don't actually break but simply fail to extract. The extractor itself is made and installed in such a way that it exerts a very powerfull grip on the rim no question about that but it is a very small grip and not even close to the surface area of a Mauser, Enfield P17 or Win. M70 etc. In the events of a difficult extraction the result is a torn rim and a stuck case in the chamber. The extracting power of any firearm is directly related to the surface area that the extractor covers. The bigger the extractor the more reliable the extraction!
bigbull
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I have fixed as many extractor problems with Mauser 98's as I have with Remington 700's.

Usually when the 700 extractor fails it is because it wasn't installed correctly or it cracked at the rivet eventually failing to engage the rim properly. The later non rivetted ones I haven't much experience with. I think I had one that was faulty right from the factory.

The 700 extractor when engaging a cartridge rim easily has the ability to lift over 200 pounds. I have hung all my weight on a case held in a vise and it held fine.
 
The "claw extractor" has been proven as the most reliable extractor in the history of firearms, it was designed from the very beggining to exceed anything that a soldier might encounter in the field and keep working without fault. It was designed with war in mind and remains to this day the number one choice when building a rifle for dangerous game hunting, I don't know how many pounds it can lift or whether it can support my weight from a vice clamped case but I do know that it will tear a stubborn case out of the chamber or the bolt handle will be sheared off the bolt but it will not let go of the case, this cannot be said of any Remington extractor today or in the days gone by. This is why people who make their living protecting other people, like proffesional guides in Africa 99.999% of the time use a Claw extractor action in their bolt actions. Come to think of it I can't ever remember hearing of anyone running to their gunsmith to build an African rifle with their Remington or Savage or any of the other pushfeeds. Strange coincidence don't you think!

IMHO
bigbull
 
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