Sako M995 to a 460 Wby

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rugratdk

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Thinking of converting a Sako M995 30-378 Wby into a 460 Wby, just wondering if anyone had any thoughts or tips????:runaway:
 
Add lots of weight,magna porting,a brake and dont shoot it when you are hung over,sick,had a fight with the better half or just having a lousy day.

I own the infamous Ruger #1 in 460 that a few ppl in here have owned.Its got all of the above and i added lead to it to get it up to 12 pounds now.Shooting off the bench with a past recoil shield and moving 405 grainers at 2700 with no signs of pressure will definately get your attention.The muzzle rises about 18 inches,moves me back about 2 feet and i still cant figure out how to keep the bags on the bench after i touch it off...just ask Prosper or Grizzaxemann..they have both sat and watched me touch it off and just shook there heads..
 
rugratdk said:
Thinking of converting a Sako M995 30-378 Wby into a 460 Wby, just wondering if anyone had any thoughts or tips????:runaway:
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Well it is a better cartridge than the 30-378 but my first thought is why would you want something so powerful? Planning on an elephant? :D
 
There was issues with the recoil lug and the M995 not holding up in high recoiling calibers, eg 338 Lapua and above. They put out an aftermarket recoil lug, as its built into the stock and not part of the barrel. I am not sure if it has to be installed by a gunsmith or not. Its not an issue in my 270 Weatherby, but may be an issue in the 460.
 
I owned that #1 in .460 for most of it's life and used it a fair bit. When I had it there was no Magna-porting, but it did have the removable muzzle brake. The Decelerator pad helped more than everything else, and with the new R3 pads and so on out now, I would likely put one of those on it.
The .460 round is actually quite versatile, it doesn't have to be loaded to the top end all the time. It can imitate the ballistics of any other .45 rifle round. My favorite load in it for hunting was a 400 grain Barnes X spitzer at 2500 fps. it just toppled big animals and was really easy to shoot.
That rifle is capable of some very good accuracy too and you will never be limited by powder capacity, it will do all that you will ever want and more. The rifle has potential beyond what most shooters are going to want to hold onto.
It worked well with cast bullets and filler too for reduced loads. Loading it like a .45/90, it will give accuracy for bench shooting with cast bullets. If you want to load a 300 grainer or 350 up and make it shoot flat, it will do that too. It will also take the middle weight bullets in 400-405 and up and shoot them at medium velocities without any trouble.
Top end loads will burn a lot of powder, but you know that getting into it.
Weatherby adds an extra recoil lug to their Mark Vs in .460. I don't know anything about the Sako rifles, so I can't say what they would need, but you can bet there is a good reason Weatherby adds that second lug to their .460s, maybe someone with experience with Sakos could tell us if it's required here.
The .460 when loaded up to it's potential kicks fast and heavily, it's something that takes a lot of shooting to get used too. I find it similar in feel to a heavy load from a .416 Rigby only scaled up another 1/4. That #1 is worse than a Mark V for recoil too, as that Tropical weighed just 9 lbs. even before you added the weight to it. That rifle started life as a .458 Win, then was a .450 AI and finally a .460Wby. The sights were done by an old well known smith in Whitehorse and the barrel was done by Ron Propp or Ralf Martini, I forget which. The finish was just added before it left here. That rifle was always very accurate and spawned lots of ideas and #1 projects after it including some other .45s and .50s. It's a great rifle, but you have to work it up. Full house rounds to start off with and you will never want to shoot it. Shot-buffer works great for filler for reduced loads in that case too.
 
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Casull pretty much nailed it.

A 500 gr bullet driven to 2400 fps will handle any game on the planet, and a well designed rifle would be well behaved with this load, without having to resort to all sorts of recoil reducing gimmicks. IMHO, the factory .460 Wby load serves little purpose, and offers no advantage as the velocity exceeds the design parameters of most .458 bullets. Woodleigh makes a 550 gr bullet which might be interesting to experiment with, and the .460 could drive this bullet about 2450 fps.
 
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Casull said:
I owned that #1 in .460 for most of it's life and used it a fair bit. When I had it there was no Magna-porting, but it did have the removable muzzle brake. The Decelerator pad helped more than everything else, and with the new R3 pads and so on out now, I would likely put one of those on it.
The .460 round is actually quite versatile, it doesn't have to be loaded to the top end all the time. It can imitate the ballistics of any other .45 rifle round. My favorite load in it for hunting was a 400 grain Barnes X spitzer at 2500 fps. it just toppled big animals and was really easy to shoot.
That rifle is capable of some very good accuracy too and you will never be limited by powder capacity, it will do all that you will ever want and more. The rifle has potential beyond what most shooters are going to want to hold onto.
It worked well with cast bullets and filler too for reduced loads. Loading it like a .45/90, it will give accuracy for bench shooting with cast bullets. If you want to load a 300 grainer or 350 up and make it shoot flat, it will do that too. It will also take the middle weight bullets in 400-405 and up and shoot them at medium velocities without any trouble.
Top end loads will burn a lot of powder, but you know that getting into it.
Weatherby adds an extra recoil lug to their Mark Vs in .460. I don't know anything about the Sako rifles, so I can't say what they would need, but you can bet there is a good reason Weatherby adds that second lug to their .460s, maybe someone with experience with Sakos could tell us if it's required here.
The .460 when loaded up to it's potential kicks fast and heavily, it's something that takes a lot of shooting to get used too. I find it similar in feel to a heavy load from a .416 Rigby only scaled up another 1/4. That #1 is worse than a Mark V for recoil too, as that Tropical weighed just 9 lbs. even before you added the weight to it. That rifle started life as a .458 Win, then was a .450 AI and finally a .460Wby. The sights were done by an old well known smith in Whitehorse and the barrel was done by Ron Propp or Ralf Martini, I forget which. The finish was just added before it left here. That rifle was always very accurate and spawned lots of ideas and #1 projects after it including some other .45s and .50s. It's a great rifle, but you have to work it up. Full house rounds to start off with and you will never want to shoot it. Shot-buffer works great for filler for reduced loads in that case too.
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I agree Casull...this # 1 is fun to shoot and recoil is there..but my 10 pound 416 kicks way worse then the 460 does.I can take 2 rounds off the bench of 416 then i am done for the day..its not fun to have your shooting glasses rammed in to your head violently and your neck snap back so fiercely that you dont know if you are in one piece or two. The recoil velocity of the 416 is probably twice that of the 460 but thats where the brake and porting are doing there thing.

Grizz fired one round of 460 offhand and liked it..he fired one round out of the rigby,took the scope in the forehead and said never again. I stood beside him and watched the rigby grace him and seen his head jerk back violently and knew he was done for the day..Ya just gotta love the big bores...:shotgun:
 
I have owned and used about 10 .416s now. The .416 Rigby when heavily loaded kicks very hard and fast in most rifles. It can surely be comparable to a .460.
When the .460 is loaded up especially with 500grain and heavier bullets, recoil is very heavy. I never liked a scope on that rifle and that is why it has those "express sights" on it. For lighter bullets, a scope would be okay but with the heavy loads, if you forgot and creeped up on it just once, you would have a wound that you wouldn't soon forget. Good apreture sights and open sights are the anwser in my opinion.
I made another #1 in .50/460 after that one and on the .50 I used a Leupold Intermediate Eye Relief scope with about 12" of eye relief and that was great. It was fast to shoot, gave 2.5X magnification and there was never a worry of getting hit with the scope. I mounted this slighty forward of where the rib would be on a factory #1 and found it right. I tried one on a factory .416 Rigby Ruger #1 too and it worked fine with the rings on the stock rib.
If your .416 Rigby is kicking that badly, you should try a brake or something to slow it down as you suggest. The Rigby is normally underrated, it is basically a .460 Wby. necked to .416" and shooting a 400 grain bullet. When these get up around 2700 fps. which they easily will in a modern rifle, recoil is getting severe.
I know a guy that broke his nose TWICE with the same scoped .458. Standard scopes on these big bores can be quite dangerous. Long eye relief scopes are better and personally I really prefer a good apreture sight. They are light and very sturdy and you don't get hit with them. The NECG apreture is fully adjustable, all steel and fits in Ruger integral scope bases. They make one to fit a Weaver mount too, but I have not yet tried one of these. I just got an Ashley Ghost ring that fits a Weaver mount, I will try that soon too.
Try your .460 with the muzzle brake on and off and see the difference. You should be able to get the same results with a brake on your Rigby. I find the other .416s much tamer than the Rigby normally. The .416 rem mag or .416 Taylor are usually quite controllable with 350 grain bullets in my experience anyway and are still great killers.
I am sure stock design is a huge factor in felt recoil. Most of my big bore projects have been on Ruger #1s and similar rifles with the exception that I have had a few .416s in bolt guns. I find the CZ in .416 Rigby bad for kicking. Someone that knows more about stock design may be able to tell us more of what to change or add to make the rifle more controllable in recoil. I have tried the old A Square Hannibal big bores with huge wide butts and very straight stocks with really soft recoil pads and they are great for softening or spreading recoil on big bore guns.
I liked the removable brake on your .460 as you could put plugs under your hearing protectors at the range and not be bothered by the noise level. Then it could be removed for hunting to shorten the rifle and so on. I never saw a change in point of impact with the brake on and off of that rifle either or with the other .450 I tried one on.
 
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Geeze you guys.....hope that bug doesn't bite me.

The factory sako stock should handle it. I have never cut one a part to see the design of the retaining lug. Installing the sandwiched Remington style lug is pretty much a North American standard and works well.
 
mylesrom said:
There was issues with the recoil lug and the M995 not holding up in high recoiling calibers, eg 338 Lapua and above. They put out an aftermarket recoil lug, as its built into the stock and not part of the barrel. I am not sure if it has to be installed by a gunsmith or not. Its not an issue in my 270 Weatherby, but may be an issue in the 460.
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The gun was a consignment from P&D in Edmonton, it does not have the original stock, just a home made fiberglass one, so I will have to order a new one. I assume that I can order the replacement stock with the aftermarket recoil lug??????
 
For managing recoil is it better to have the the drop comb or a straight pull back to the shoulder?
 
The after market lugs were made by Montana rifleman (Serengetti Stocks), and I don't know if they are still making them. It was actually a whole set of bottom metal, for restocking the TRG-S/995. McMillan bought quite a few sets for use with thier stocks. You can google them and see. I have a TRG-S/995 in 338 Lapua and have had no lug or stock shiftproblems so far. - dan
 
We have a pile of Seregetti bottom metal for the TRG-S. Not inexpensive, let me tell you. They sell the complete assembly. This is the same system McMillan uses on their stocks when you buy a synthetic stock. Seregetti will also make you a complete stock for you rifle if you want to maintain the wood platform.

The lug is nothing fancy. I surprised when I saw what Serrengtti sells...which btw requires fitting.

We have Sako M995 stocks available. Simple and economical drop in... bed if you like since guys appear to have success with bedding them.

I could be wrong, but I think the failures of this lug are partially attributed to loose screws. The system is less forgiving then the traditional remington/mauser lug system.
 
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