SAM Thunderbolt 1911 Stainless

I have a Seraphim Archangel (AKA SAM Thunderbolt) on order after reading many positive reports. I like what Seraphim stands for.

I handled and shot an ATI gun (marketed in the US) which is identical and was very impressed.

Here is a clip I found recently. Watch it to the end. Despite the handwork, the plant actually uses modern CNC machines. I found the clip heartwarming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ1B2aPzRhI
 
No Mr. Way, keep watching. It starts with the illegal builders in those huts but then moves to the SAM factory. It will still look primitive but as you may know the factory has modern CNC machines. This is a bit of a human interest story as many of the factory workers were formerly illegals who have earned a new and better life at the SAM factory. Keep watching as I think it's pretty cool. It does show you what marketing and decent video production can do in terms of changing the look of the real story.
 
hercster said:
I have a Seraphim Archangel (AKA SAM Thunderbolt) on order after reading many positive reports. I like what Seraphim stands for.

I handled and shot an ATI gun (marketed in the US) which is identical and was very impressed.

Here is a clip I found recently. Watch it to the end. Despite the handwork, the plant actually uses modern CNC machines. I found the clip heartwarming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ1B2aPzRhI
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What do they stand for? Not honesty, because they flat out deny their guns are manufactured by SAM.
 
kschneider said:
What do they stand for? Not honesty, because they flat out deny their guns are manufactured by SAM.
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Well I will be checking that out to the degree I can. There are three "major" producers in the Philippines. All produce guns on contract for other brands. The three companies are Armsor, most often seen as RIA, S.A.M, common in the US as ATI and Metro Arms. While they all produce 1911's, there's enough of a superficial difference to make them recognizable. The three companies collectively make more 1911's than all the US producers combined.

There are subtle ways to change total cost and they are used all the time in volume operations. A combination of internals that can collectively be sold in a pistol for $2 less is a winner when dealing with their numbers. BudsGunShops in the US is a huge volume dealer and they sell the S.A.M. made guns under the ATI label. That's the one I shot here in Texas.

This is the way things work at the "commodity" level in many industries including household items like washers and dryers. Their are many brands in the public eye but very few producers. Chest freezers are a good example.

I'd be very interested to see that "official" denial. Sometimes there are legal agreements between parties and this may be one of them.
 
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As far as the public side goes, they simply did not reveal the maker (other board). They neither disclosed nor denied anything.

And, personally, Joby strikes me as being a straight up guy who is passionate about this venture, and the guns.

Considering they are new at this, and are competing with the big fish, isn't a bit of caution warranted?

K, my friend - you are kinda brewing a tempest in a teapot here, especially for someone who has had and plans to have no dealings with the outfit.
 
Mark-II said:
As far as the public side goes, they simply did not reveal the maker (other board). They neither disclosed nor denied anything.

And, personally, Joby strikes me as being a straight up guy who is passionate about this venture, and the guns.

Considering they are new at this, and are competing with the big fish, isn't a bit of caution warranted?

K, my friend - you are kinda brewing a tempest in a teapot here, especially for someone who has had and plans to have no dealings with the outfit.
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That's where I'm coming from Mr. Mark and why I asked for a verifiable quote. Lying can be very stupid especially when everyone and his pony can do a little research so easily. However, not revealing confidential business arrangements is good business particularly when so many contracts include a non-disclosure agreement. Companies like S.A.M. and most others like them, need to be able to deal in many countries with a myriad of "partners". They don't want their name to be used in public pissing matches and their survival and success depends on these sorts of arrangements.

I too have dealt directly with Joby and believe him and his associates to be honorable people and good for us Canadian gun consumers. I have lived several lives and have done business with many, many ,many people because of my jobs and responsibilities. As a professional purchaser for many years, one develops a "spidey" sense when it comes to people. My radar is pretty well tuned and so I've been happy to deal with Joby and his associates. This internet of ours is a two-edged sword to be sure. So much can be done in so little time. We may have seen clinical tests where just ten people are used. A "story" is told to one person with instructions to pass it on to another until all ten people are in the loop. The results with just ten people are astounding leading one to believe that the people don't live on the same planet. The "interwebz" take that problem 1000 fold in five minutes.

BTW, did you hear that Barack Obama is actually white and was born in Verdun, Quebec to a 13 year old Australian women ? Pass it on......V:I:
 
kschneider said:
What do they stand for? Not honesty, because they flat out deny their guns are manufactured by SAM.
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where have they stated that their guns are not made by SAM?

cause im not no fancy detective type but if you look at their line up of 1911's they are the exact ones that wolverine has.
the exact..... ones - model, options, finish..... everything!
all they did was change the names.
 
Seraphim GI
1-GI-Small.jpg

Wolverine GL
SAM191145_460.jpg


Seraphim Crusader
5-Crusader-Small-No.jpg

Wolverine SAM Commander
SAMCMDR45E_460.jpg


Seraphim Ghost
7-Ghost-Small.jpg

Wolverine Tactical
SAM1911CMDR45TAC_460.jpg


Seraphim Archangel (blue and SS)
Arch-Blk-Camo-R-300x198.jpg

Arch-SM-Camo-R-300x198.jpg

Wolverine Thunderbolt
SAMTBLT45_460.jpg

wolverine is out of stainless thunderbolts (sad face)
 
this is fun!

if you check out Seraphim's web page on the 1911's - right at the top they have a collage of 6 photo's of their manufacturing plant.
if you go to the SAM web page those are the 6 pictures they have listed on their website showing the SAM plant.

Seraphim's
Collage1.jpg


SAM's
machine1.png

machine2.png

machine3.png

machine4.png

machine5.png

machine6.png
 
Thanks for the detective work Sir. It's all pretty clear and easy to "prove" in a few minutes. So if there was a direct lie by a responsible Seraphim person, that would be incredibly stupid. My contact with the company on several occasions gave me comfort that they are legit and likely high-quality people. I suspect the fudging may have come from another direction. There is absolutely no percentage in playing games here. I'm just about 100% sure that all the parties are subject to non disclosure agreements that are to everyone's benefit including us consumers. There's room for more players on the Canadian scene and Seraphim has chosen a small niche. They aren't a real threat to any of the established and bigger players and so I'm happy to send a little piece of my business their way.

I was quite pleased to see the video that started in the illegal shack operations with hard working decent people trying to raise their families in peace. I really like that the SAM factory is giving many people a legitimate and better life in return for good work. I'm pleased that my single order might keep one of those people gainfully employed even if it's just for part of a day.
 
silverfoxdj said:
That Thunderbolt is sweet...
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I just ordered more parts and tools in preparation for the arrival of mine. From what I saw with my only experience with the Thunderbolt, the gun will be a very good platform for my amateur improvements. Once I get it and do my thing for better or worse, I'll write a report covering the whole operation and the results I hope to achieve. The parts in the air to me now are from Wilson Combat and the other stuff I already have, came from Cylinder and Slide so I have some pretty decent parts to bring about a happy marriage.:p
 
hercster said:
I just ordered more parts and tools in preparation for the arrival of mine. From what I saw with my only experience with the Thunderbolt, the gun will be a very good platform for my amateur improvements. Once I get it and do my thing for better or worse, I'll write a report covering the whole operation and the results I hope to achieve. The parts in the air to me now are from Wilson Combat and the other stuff I already have, came from Cylinder and Slide so I have some pretty decent parts to bring about a happy marriage.:p
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I'm sure you'll like it right out of the box..
 
After much research here on CGN and elsewhere, I've decided, when funds allow, to pick up a 9mm SAM 1911 stainless Enhanced from Wolverine. It's mind boggling how tough it can be to pick out a new piece of hardware. I've been shooting skeet and trap for the last 10 years or so. And the last time I shot a pistol was probably 15 or 16 years ago. Can't wait to buy the new toy and get it to the range and get a review posted up.
 
We compared my Thunderbolt to other club members high end 1911's, S&W Performance Center, Nighthawk, Les Baer, Wilson Combat, and I was not ashamed or embarrassed by my SAM. The guys tried it and were very impressed by it. We took them apart and compared them, and it was their equal. I have the Thunderbolt, and Omega 6 9mm, and I will soon be getting a Titan. I am confident I will get many years of reliable service from them.
 
silverfoxdj said:
I'm sure you'll like it right out of the box..
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I'm sure you are right Mr. Silveryguy! However I know me all too well. A few months ago, I took delivery of my Tanfoglio Limited Custom Xtreme. These babies are selling now at close to $2500.00 To me, that gun is close to perfect for my gaming needs. In some insane ways it was a disappointment as there is nothing I can do to improve the darned thing.

Sooooooooooooo a week or two later, I bought the much less costly Limited Pro in 9mm for $1100. From day one, my plan was to install all the Xtreme parts essentially coming close to the Xtreme models short of finish and barrel rifling. I guess I spent close to $500 for parts and did 98% of the work myself. In fact, I don't think I shot even one round "out of the box". Much to my surprise, I enjoy the second gun possibly more than the Eric Grauffel model because of the play value in the upgrades. When I got down here to Texas, I rebuilt a friend's older Tanfoglio by installing a bunch of better parts and by doing a "trigger job". Now I'm out of project guns and am spiraling into depression. :( Sooooo along comes this Seraphim deal and I'm juiced again and can't wait for it to arrive in my OR. Life is good when you have a gun!!! :dancingbanana:
 
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