Sauer 404. Nice little piece of engineering

jjohnwm said:
I don't care if the gun is to be used for mountain game, long-range hunting, dangerous game or shooting into space. The way the rifle fits does not change from one type of use to another...a rifle that fits me will work for any purpose that I will want a hunting rifle to serve. I'm as much a fan as the next guy when it comes to having a couple of gunsafes full of largely redundant rifles for different purposes, but the fact is that a single switch-barrel, with only a couple or a few different chamberings available, will do the job at least as well as the full-on collection of specialty rifles will. Shooting everything with the same well-fitting gun, using the same trigger, same ergonomics and same "feel" has huge advantages.

But for me, an equally large part of the appeal of this gun is the tiny size of the package in which it fits when taken down. Go through an airport just once with a 26- or 30-inch long gun case, and then try to tell me that you prefer the 40- or 50-inch job you need for your old Mauser.

All the other features are less important, but still have their value. I don't care that much for detachable magazines, but the one on this gun looks pretty safe against accidental release or loss. The manual cocking/decocking safety is wonderful when you get used to it. The Sauer proprietary scope mounting system is supposed to be perfect return-to-zero. I know, I know, that's "impossible"...except it isn't. Blaser has a scope mount that does indeed return to zero with no perceptible shift, so it seems reasonable that Sauer can do the same.

I like traditional and history in my guns. If I want to hunt with a gun that has those attributes, it won't be a bolt gun at all...I'll use a falling block single, or a muzzle loader, or even one of them futuristic lever guns that hold more than one shell! :) But if you want the perfect tool for the job...and if you are honest with yourself...it's pretty hard not to see the advantages offered by modern rifles of this type.
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Horses for courses. I prefer different ergonomics for different roles.
 
Familygunnutz said:
Thank god we are not all traditionalists, otherwise we'll still be comparing who makes the better stone spears....
while I appreciate traditional craftsmanship, but you got to let the boys innovate.
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Extreme, radical, disproportionate. I mean your comment.
Since when a bolt action is obsolete? The sniper rifle in this century is still bolt action. The truth is, the more moving parts, the more hidden problems down the road.
 
Who has stated that bolt actions are obsolete? The 404 is a bolt action, and conceptually it differs very little from a Mauser 98 or any other bolt gun. Details, details...

A little over a century ago, dyed-in-the-wool hard-line traditionalists were sneering at Mauser and clutching their lever actions and single shots tightly to their breasts, totally outraged at the audacity of such new thinking. Compared to that, this slight evolutionary development shouldn't raise any eyebrows...but it sure seems to have done so.
 
elker said:
Extreme, radical, disproportionate. I mean your comment.
Since when a bolt action is obsolete? The sniper rifle in this century is still bolt action. The truth is, the more moving parts, the more hidden problems down the road.
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Lol comon, what I said was a bit of tongue in cheek but not much,
Lightened up, if you want a traditional hand crafted chunk of metal, plenty makers will happy to craft one for you.
Just as there are plenty people are willing to build you a small block v8 with carburetor, no need to loose sleep over Audi/BMW/VW with their "unreliable engine" with "too much" electronics.
 
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Mmm. The removable bolt head reminds me of the shell holder on my rcbs press.
Yes, every looks nice except when a catastrophe happens. What about a broken case which puts pressure on the two-piece bolt at a not-funny level? Can sauer 404 do as well as m98?
 
cam1936 said:
Horses for courses. I prefer different ergonomics for different roles.
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It only makes sense. A target rifle fits differently than a bush rifle which fits differently than a dangerous game rifle. Imagine going into the pusher bush with a thumb hole stocked 26" barrel? Not this kid.
 
BigUglyMan said:
It only makes sense. A target rifle fits differently than a bush rifle which fits differently than a dangerous game rifle. Imagine going into the pusher bush with a thumb hole stocked 26" barrel? Not this kid.
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There are many versions of the 202 and 404 rifle. The 20 inch HB variant with a sporter stock has my attention presently.

Myself I have three older Mausers and I like this rifle design too.
 
My issue here would not be with the function or design of the rifle. It is just to pretty. Did away with the high grade, to pretty to take out of the padded case .....locker princess's. If one could get a plain rifle at a reduced price, this would be a great choice.

Believe this is about a $3500 rifle. Would bet that interchangeable barrels would be $900-1000, scope mounts about $500, and the bolt heads would also be pricey.

So for me, a nice post, not for me due to prettiness and cost.
 
elker said:
Mmm. The removable bolt head reminds me of the shell holder on my rcbs press.
Yes, every looks nice except when a catastrophe happens. What about a broken case which puts pressure on the two-piece bolt at a not-funny level? Can sauer 404 do as well as m98?
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Why should this bolt head be and different from Savage's bolt head. It's locked into place with three locking lugs. Nothing new, nothing unsafe.
 
BigUglyMan said:
It only makes sense. A target rifle fits differently than a bush rifle which fits differently than a dangerous game rifle. Imagine going into the pusher bush with a thumb hole stocked 26" barrel? Not this kid.
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Setting aside the idea of a target rifle...how exactly does a dangerous game rifle fit differently than a bush rifle, or any other hunting rifle for that matter? I want a hunting rifle to have the correct length of pull for me, I want it as light as possible, I want the grip to fill my hand and to allow my wrist to maintain a comfortable angle while still allowing a firm grip and good control, I want a rounded and comfortable fore-end..and I want these things whether I am shooting coyotes or cape buffalo. I might conceivably want a lower comb on a gun that was to be used with iron sights exclusively, or a higher one for scope use, but to honest I would be hard-pressed to choose a serious hunting rifle that could not be useable with both sighting systems.

When you pick up a rifle in a gunshop and shoulder it, do you comment on the fact that it is comfortable or not comfortable...or do you qualify the statement? "Wow, this feels like it would make a great bush rifle, but it wouldn't be comfortable for dangerous game use at all!" A gun fits you, or it doesn't.

Thumbhole stock? I can't imagine using that for any hunting purpose. And a 26-inch barrel? With the 404, you could always have exactly the barrel length/weight/caliber that you wanted. :)
 
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elker said:
Mmm. The removable bolt head reminds me of the shell holder on my rcbs press.
Yes, every looks nice except when a catastrophe happens. What about a broken case which puts pressure on the two-piece bolt at a not-funny level? Can sauer 404 do as well as m98?
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Elker I am not sure why so invested in this topic. If you don't like the Sauer that is OK. Start a pro-Mauser thread. My guess is you have never used a Sauer. You are missing out....I never saw the value of these "fancy" guns until I bought a used one at a good price and tried it out. I think of it like a good bottle of wine or an old single malt, you really have no idea what quality is until you try it. If you enjoy that $9.99 bottle, keep on drinking! Ignorance is bliss.
 
vancouverbc said:
Elker I am not sure why so invested in this topic. If you don't like the Sauer that is OK. Start a pro-Mauser thread. My guess is you have never used a Sauer. You are missing out....I never saw the value of these "fancy" guns until I bought a used one at a good price and tried it out. I think of it like a good bottle of wine or an old single malt, you really have no idea what quality is until you try it. If you enjoy that $9.99 bottle, keep on drinking! Ignorance is bliss.
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To equal a well tuned M98 rifle to a cheap bottle of booze is hardly a fair race. The 98 Mauser has been doing it very right for for in many different forms in many different places for almost 120yrs and few other rifles have come close to rival it. While the Sauer may offer some interesting option trinkets, it's hardly an improvement over the 98 as a working rifle. I'd rather have two or three good std rifles than one switch bbl / take-down Sauer for the same price.
 
SuperCub said:
To equal a well tuned M98 rifle to a cheap bottle of booze is hardly a fair race. The 98 Mauser has been doing it very right for for in many different forms in many different places for almost 120yrs and few other rifles have come close to rival it. While the Sauer may offer some interesting option trinkets, it's hardly an improvement over the 98 as a working rifle. I'd rather have two or three good std rifles than one switch bbl / take-down Sauer for the same price.
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It was tongue in cheek. Enjoy the Mauser. Now back to the Sauer 404 ;)
 
I currently shoot 5 different traditional Mauser '98 variant hunting rifles, mostly " improved Mauser" Brno Model 21 / 22 and ZKK and one small ring German Guild gun. They were the peak of perfection and engineering excellence from a concept developed more than a century ago. I shoot a dozen Sako hunting rifles and some very nice Anschutz varmint rifles that were the next best thing, a push feed bolt action that has extreme accuracy, simplified design, and consistent admirable build quality. I have used and been very disappointed with many variations of the American led "race to the bottom" of quality and reliability like the Remington 700, Winchester M70 and even the Ruger 77. So I think the new Sauer is a very intriguing rifle, and I'd like to sell a bunch of my other rifles and buy one with a couple extra barrels.
 
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Longwalker said:
very disappointed with many variations of the American led "race to the bottom" of quality and reliability like the Remington 700, Winchester M70 and even the Ruger 77. So I think the new Sauer is a very intriguing rifle, and I'd like to sell a bunch of my other rifles and buy one with a couple extra barrels.
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Couldn't agree more.
 
It's very common for Blaser shooters to do just this, i.e. sell off a bunch of their old bolt guns and then invest heavily in the switch-barrel system. I suspect the same is probably true of owners of similar guns like the Mauser 03, Merkel Helix and most likely the Sauer 404 as well when it becomes readily available.

As recently as 5 or 6 years ago, I owned, used and enjoyed a stable of perhaps two dozen standard bolt-action rifles in big-game chamberings, along with 2 Blaser receivers and 2 barrels. When I decided it had become less satisfying than it once was to keep all that iron around, I started selling a bunch of them, and am still doing it. I now have a .308 M700, a .458WinMag Mauser 98, a Tikka in .300WinMag...plus two Blaser receivers and 5 barrels. Using anything other than one of the new Wunderguns makes me feel as though I am handicapping myself, similar to the feel of using a muzzleloader or a levergun.

Supercub, when you look over your standard bolt rifles, I wonder if there are any that are still in unaltered, out-of-the-box form. None of mine were...they all needed, or at least could benefit significantly from, the attentions of a gunsmith and the replacement of a few key parts. Once improved, with new triggers, tuned and tweaked bedding, trued and squared receivers and re-done barrel crowns, sometimes new stocks or barrels...most of them shoot almost as well as the typical Blaser barrel, screwed onto an out-of-the-box receiver with my own two untrained hands.:)

Tradition is nice, but it costs so much in so many ways...
 
Why can't we just all get along? There's room in my safe and in my heart for mausers, push feeds, straight pulls, doubles, pumps and even single shots. I don't own a Blaser or a Sauer but I do love them. I also love the Heym SR-30, as well as Steyr's and Sako's. The new FN Winchester 70s are good guns. And my Brno ZG-47 and custom mauser .375 H&H are great. I love my new Mauser M12 (oh the heresy some would say, a mauser banner on a push feed... but it points like lightning, feeds slick as butter and shoots like I have lasers in my eyes, and from field positions not just from a bench rest. I wish I still had my Empire arms .450 Rigby.... but I am already planning its successor..... Another 450 Rigby.

If I can love them all why can't you.... It's a new era of tolerance, all sunshine and lollipops from here on out...

As the old song says, all gods creatures have a place in the choir
 
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