Savage 10ML II Lessons

[icanuck]

So I picked up a Savage 10MLII Stainless Synthetic this spring to keep my other muzzleloaders company and have been taking it to the range the last few times out. It's had no alterations to it. The trigger is the accumark and is quite good. Not sure what it breaks at, but it feels safe to hunt with yet light enough to be accurate at the range. It's topped with a Bushnell Elite 3200 3-9x40.

It's a really interesting gun and I find it a lot of fun to shoot. I had an Encore before this one and still have an Omega and a New Englander and have no problem with the concept of a smokeless muzzleloader. I like having a variety of any particular type of gun to explore and learn about each. As far as muzzleloaders is concerned my next foray will be a Springfield or Enfield from the ciivil war, but that's for another thread.

Here's what I've learned so far...

One thing I had read about but never really saw proof of was letting the barrel cool between shots. I learned why. Here's the result.

Some say read the sabot, others say it doesn't mean s**t, well I've discovered it's definitely a clue to why you missed your target. I was fortunate and had a freshly mowed and solitary range outing that afternoon. These were wasy to find and I picked up a few and put them in my pocket figuring I might write something like this. The sabots on the left were when the barrel was cool, either the first shot of the day or loooong intervals between shots. These are Hornady sabots rated for the 10MLII and it was an overcast day about 20C. The ones on the right are after I followed up immediately with another shot or waited even just a couple minutes. These shots didn't even hit the paper. I'm a little ashamed to say, I have no idea where they went. The intact ones on the left were well over 2-3 MOA but I wasn't there to really squeeze the accuracy out of it. And besides, that's still under minute-of-deer...

For that I'm working up loads using Vitavouri N110 and soon IMR SR4759. I've tried 42 gr N110 so far with Hornady XTP 45 cal pistol bullets (Savage recommended loads) for familiarization and tinkering and have gotten decent groups so far. I've also tried 250 and 300 gr TC shockwaves which seem to shoot well. I'll start squeezing accuary out of it the next few range sessions.

I've read on Randy Wakeman's web site a handy thing to have is plastic test tubes to hold powder charges. This is great advice. I picked up a buttload of these test tubes and caps, pre-measured the powder and put them in zip lock bags with the charge and powder Sharpied on it. Grab a charge out a bag, dump it in, continue loading. Very handy.

Contrary to what I've also read about the 10MLII being a "recoilless" muzzle loader, with N110 at least the 10MLII kicks like a mule. I'll try the SR4759 soon to see if it has less recoil. And have a bottle of Blackhorn 209 to also try.

I'll have it out again tomorrow. I'm really looking forward. I'll make sure to have my PAST recoil pad though

And I've yet to clean it...

I like.

 

[longbeardking]

So I picked up a Savage 10MLII Stainless Synthetic this spring to keep my other muzzleloaders company and have been taking it to the range the last few times out. It's had no alterations to it. The trigger is the accumark and is quite good. Not sure what it breaks at, but it feels safe to hunt with yet light enough to be accurate at the range. It's topped with a Bushnell Elite 3200 3-9x40.

It's a really interesting gun and I find it a lot of fun to shoot. I had an Encore before this one and still have an Omega and a New Englander and have no problem with the concept of a smokeless muzzleloader. I like having a variety of any particular type of gun to explore and learn about each. As far as muzzleloaders is concerned my next foray will be a Springfield or Enfield from the ciivil war, but that's for another thread.

Here's what I've learned so far...

One thing I had read about but never really saw proof of was letting the barrel cool between shots. I learned why. Here's the result.

Some say read the sabot, others say it doesn't mean s**t, well I've discovered it's definitely a clue to why you missed your target. I was fortunate and had a freshly mowed and solitary range outing that afternoon. These were wasy to find and I picked up a few and put them in my pocket figuring I might write something like this. The sabots on the left were when the barrel was cool, either the first shot of the day or loooong intervals between shots. These are Hornady sabots rated for the 10MLII and it was an overcast day about 20C. The ones on the right are after I followed up immediately with another shot or waited even just a couple minutes. These shots didn't even hit the paper. I'm a little ashamed to say, I have no idea where they went. The intact ones on the left were well over 2-3 MOA but I wasn't there to really squeeze the accuracy out of it. And besides, that's still under minute-of-deer...

For that I'm working up loads using Vitavouri N110 and soon IMR SR4759. I've tried 42 gr N110 so far with Hornady XTP 45 cal pistol bullets (Savage recommended loads) for familiarization and tinkering and have gotten decent groups so far. I've also tried 250 and 300 gr TC shockwaves which seem to shoot well. I'll start squeezing accuary out of it the next few range sessions.

I've read on Randy Wakeman's web site a handy thing to have is plastic test tubes to hold powder charges. This is great advice. I picked up a buttload of these test tubes and caps, pre-measured the powder and put them in zip lock bags with the charge and powder Sharpied on it. Grab a charge out a bag, dump it in, continue loading. Very handy.

Contrary to what I've also read about the 10MLII being a "recoilless" muzzle loader, with N110 at least the 10MLII kicks like a mule. I'll try the SR4759 soon to see if it has less recoil. And have a bottle of Blackhorn 209 to also try.

I'll have it out again tomorrow. I'm really looking forward. I'll make sure to have my PAST recoil pad though

And I've yet to clean it...

I like.

Everything you said is spot on. I've been shooting one for several years. Mine is pre-accutrigger.

I'd like to add one thing though. INSTEAD of plastic tubes for carrying extra charges, I use spent 45-70 brass cases with a plastic cap ocer the end. I fins my powder, IMR 4227 "sticks" to the plactic tube. Static electricity???? I have had no problem with the brass. Any case with a large enough capacity will work. I just happened to have a quantity of 45-70's.

 

[Whelen B]

Savages are great rifles and soooo easy to maintain with smokeless. I had the same problem as you when my son and I alternated shooting my Savage (faster reloading) and not much of a rest between shots - good accuracy suddenly was non-existent - couldn't hit a barn. Sabots get warm and won't hang together to do their job as your pics show - more of a problem quicker in summer. I always used SR4759 with Crushed Rib sabots, CCI mag primers with Hornady .452 300grs bullets. It was fairly easy on the shoulder but I didn't exceed the factory recommended charge. My son killed a few deer with it before I sold it to get a lighter and handier TC Katahdin. Liked the Savage lots though.

 

[Andy]

Andy's Rule: "Any conversation on the Savage 10ML, if it continues long enough will have someone....."

 

[icanuck]

I wondered if I wasted my typing skills on this thread. Thanks for the comments. I enjoy learning from others.

I also wondered if someone was going to go there. As I mentioned in the first thread I have no problem with the concept. Maybe because I was born in the late seventies? I don't know!?! I read a passage somewhere that if it's a hard hitting gun that will cleanly and ethically take game, why is anyone #####in'? I tend to agree. Even though it's a modern interpretation of the muzzle loading concept, it really is just a one shot pony, and must be treated as such. One shot, one kill. But I digress...

I took the Savage to the range the next day as mentioned in my post and had horrible consistency and accuracy. It was 25C and a bright sunny day. I took 7 shots and 2 (!!) hit the paper (exactly where I wanted them to be I might add). I left it to cool for about a half hour or more between shots and it didn't seem to matter. The ones that hit the paper were the first two shots in the morning. After that the wheels fell off the wagon. It seems to be a cool weather gun with these sabots. I was using the Hornady sabots with 42 grains of N110 again. I kept both the gun and the sabots out of the sun, but it was just too warm I think for the sabots. I ordered some MMP sabots from PR Bullet and will try again with those. For s**ts and giggles, I did try the TC Shockwave bullet sabot combo I was using in my Omega and I don't have a clue where that one went!

I didn't try the Blackhorn 209 in the Savage, having never shot that powder before I wasn't aware of how much residue or crud it would leave behind if any and little experience cleaning the Savage left me not wanting to try it. I didn't have a ton of time to clean that night. I did try the BH209 in my Omega though, and I think I'm gonna throw the rest of my 777 in the garbage! Or maybe offer it up for free to anyone who wants to come and get it. BH209 really is the bees knees. But that's also for another thread.

 

[tbdtp]

I have been on the Savage 10ml wagon for the last 6 or 7 years. Here are a few things I have learned. MMP crush rib sabots over 47 grains of 4759 with a 250 tc shockwave. Most every one I have put this load combo into shot 1" or better and all my friends have converted to this loading. Don't clean the barrel my first one seen 200 plus shots and was never cleaned and it only got better. I sight these in 2" high at 100 it is 5"s low at 200 and 18" low at 300.

 

[Dogleg]

Since we have a muzzleloader season, not a primitive weapon season I see no problem with using smokeless. I've got 2 savages now, and gave away my last black powder gun.
The recoil is one heck of a lot lighter than the 3 Pyrodex pellet loads I used to use, at least with book loads of 4759. The non-book, H4198, 2650 fps with a 265 load is a whole 'nother story.