Savage 116 Alakan Brush Hunter 338wm... first time out... meh

It's hard to judge experience from the opposite side of a computer screen. Post count often means #### (example: sunray) so we're left to fill in the gaps ourselves. There were a couple of warning flags...

1) You mentioned putting a +20 MOA rail on a run of the mill hunting rifle. One could be forgiven for wondering why you went to that trouble when for $50 you could have had a set of wildly superior Talley Lightweights. When guys show up in the hunting forum talking about a tapered (not canted!) rail on a hunting rifle it often follows that the OP may be a kid who got hoodwinked by counter staff.

2) You spoke of "$3 per round" ammunition as though this was a thing. At $3 per round you're not even shooting premium factory ammo. $3 per round is peanuts, talk to us when you hit $10-$25 per round for factory ammo. Nor are you handloading. These are often signs that one is dealing with a youngster with little experience.

3) The bullet and weight you're running is light for moose and especially for bison. This also speaks to lack of experience.

4) You speak of the "hoopla" surrounding magnum rounds and then tell "new shooters to magnum rounds" that they're no big deal and make the statement (and a bold one at that) that they don't feel different than your Enfield, 30-06 or 308. Unless you have a 5 lb .308 or your '06 is a Remington Ti (First Gen) then there is simply no way that they are comparable. If they are then the experienced shooters in the crowd would tend to think that you are probably flinching the hell out of all of them.

5) You're happy with a 5 MOA group off a bipod. A real GunNut would claim that his targets were eaten by a sow black bear and her cubs while you were in the outhouse rather than admit they shot groups like that.

Now, as harsh as the above might seem, I'll not cast judgement. I've seen rifles take a schwack of elevation to get to zero. In fact I had a very expensive custom rifle that zeroed at +80 MOA on the scope off a flat (non-tapered base). I sorted that out by having a custom +40 base done up by my rifle builder. Now the rifle is a dream. So your rifle might just be shooting low. As much as I loathe a one-piece base on a hunting rifle (OK, a Jerk-O-Matic can wear one or a BAR but THAT'S IT!!!), you might just be in the space where you need that. Ken Farrell offers his bases in configurations up to +40MOA. Before you go down that road I would mount the scope up again in a set of steel weaver rings on your base and see if you can get it to zero. If you can then crank up until you get to the end of the adjustment and count the clicks it took to get there. See where that leaves you in terms of internal adjustment. Even if you zero it would be good to know whether or not you're at the top end of the adjustment or you have some wiggle room. You want to be near the middle of the adjustment range when you zero. If you can't zero then start looking at 1) scopes with more internal adjustment, or 2) get another base with more slope. Example, your scope has 52 MOA of internal adjustment. If you run out of elevation and you're still 6" low at 100 then you definitely need a +40 base. If you can zero and have 6 MOA still remaining you won't regret going to a +30 MOA or +40 MOA rail. If you need more than that you're looking at a bill from a good gunsmith but you can pretty much request whatever wild taper you want. You'll pay for it but if that's what it takes to get the rifle hunting under glass then that's what it takes.

I forgot to ask...is this a new scope or a used one? Could it's guts be hinky? Do you have a scope that you know is bulletproof that you could try on it?

Good luck.

Thanks I think.
a bit off on a few things but you tried to make it sound Convincing. If we all read all the forums here, we would all know exactly what each other were talking about. So yeah you may have missed the rip your flinching shoulder off with the magnums a few months ago.
But 225 grain light for a moose and bison? That's where You lost me. The regs say minimum 180.... And many folk use just that.

Anyway, thanks again. I should have known the thread would go here.

I'll try some new bases, have to order them in. Some of us don't live near shops.

Thanks
 
Clay at Prophet River is my source for Talley Lightweights. Best(ish) ring going for rifles without iron sights.

With iron sights I go with Warne QD rings, usually from Amazon or a certain store in Kelowna. Amazon has the QD rings and (2 piece) bases for savage in stock. With the 3-9, you should be able to use low rings, so long as you don't bump into the rear sight. You may need an extension front base. I did, as the eye relief on my VX-2 3-9 wasn't enough otherwise.

The Warnes are a very solid ring for a good price. 2 piece bases won't interfere with ejection or top loading. (maybe a bit for an extension base, if needed).

If you do bump into the rear sight with the scope, you can either remove the rear sight, in which case I'd switch to Talley Lightweights, or switch to high Warne bases, and add a cheek riser from, say, coretac solutions. Adding a cheek riser is an abomination, but the coretac one can be adjusted if the scope is removed.

If I found the rear sight interfered and wanted to keep it, I'd sell the VX-2 3-9, and switch to a VX-2 1-4, a VX-3 1.5-5 or a VX-3 1.75-6 (if it fits).
 
Thanks I think.
a bit off on a few things but you tried to make it sound Convincing. If we all read all the forums here, we would all know exactly what each other were talking about. So yeah you may have missed the rip your flinching shoulder off with the magnums a few months ago.
But 225 grain light for a moose and bison? That's where You lost me. The regs say minimum 180.... And many folk use just that.

Anyway, thanks again. I should have known the thread would go here.

I'll try some new bases, have to order them in. Some of us don't live near shops.

Thanks

225 gr Hornadys (you didn't mention which bullet but given the price I'm assuming non-premium) is not a heavy bullet by 338 standards. Given the probable light construction and the very real potential to slam it into a very dense target at close range, yeah, 225 is light for caliber. Having shot a bison at close range I feel qualified in saying that heavier, stouter bullets are the order of the day. But I'm a bigger is better kind of guy.

I feel your pain about not living near a gun shop. I haven't lived near one in 10 years. You get to appreciate the online dealers that sponsor the board.
 
225 gr Hornadys (you didn't mention which bullet but given the price I'm assuming non-premium) is not a heavy bullet by 338 standards. Given the probable light construction and the very real potential to slam it into a very dense target at close range, yeah, 225 is light for caliber. Having shot a bison at close range I feel qualified in saying that heavier, stouter bullets are the order of the day. But I'm a bigger is better kind of guy.

I feel your pain about not living near a gun shop. I haven't lived near one in 10 years. You get to appreciate the online dealers that sponsor the board.

Again, thanks for your insight Big.

I was sighting in the rifle, not hunting Bison. I have several various bullets and weights for my uses. It was the first time out.. I'm not putting my premium bullets up just yet.

New bases should solve my problems. They are on the way.
 
I'm not sure why you would want a rail on a hunting rifle. 2 piece bases are just fine.

In my somewhat limited experience with long action savages (I have one long action), having enough scope tube length to bridge the rings and get appropriate eye relief even with offset rings can be challenging, something easily solved with a rail.

That said, I wouldn't put a 20MOA rail on a 20" barreled brush gun either

The one thing I'm still unclear on, is whether the lack of elevation adjustment is causing the rifle to shoot above or below the aim point. If below, check that the front ring seated down fully on the rail. I had this exact issue once, thought the rings were seated properly, but the lug of the front ring was on top of the rail, not seated in the groove. Embarrassing, yes, but easily corrected.

If above, well, likely the scope does not have enough elevation adjustment to zero on a 20 MOA base with that rifle.

I've eyed up those 116 Alaskan's in .338 before, maybe one day one will follow me home. I wish they had the DBM, but that could be changed easily enough...
 
Was the scope bell sitting on top of the rear sight, by any chance? I know, it's a stupid question, but looking at the picture, those sights are in an awkward place... Landphil got me thinking. Sitting the scope on the rear sight and tightening the ring screws would put a nice curve in the scope tube, which would prang the erectors. Possible?
 
So.. I took it all apart, re-fit the whole set up and torqued to spec. Made sure it was all as it should be.

Range trip = bang on at 100 metres. The thing is accurate as heck now. I will chalk this up to user error?.. Not sure what I was doing wrong. Could have been a bad day..

So all is well with the 20moa rail, Z rings and Leupold VX2. It does sit a bit high, could have went with low rings but it looks and handles pretty nice now.

Very accurate out to 100, next time ill try out to 200.

BARTLEDAN - those pics were from the old set up, if its my previous post you were looking at.



Thanks for the true advice fellas, and the trollers. ONE day maybe I will be considered a true gun nut lol.


Mack
 
hey bud....

i know I'm late to the party but here it is.....

I own 2 Savage 116 Alaskan brush hunter. This rifle is so accurate that I modified and made my first one a precision rifle. I shoot 0.5 moa at a 1000 yards with it. The other I use for hunthing and is also crazy accurate. I do reload though.

As for you 20moa base, the problem is that your scope does not have enough elevation. That base is for shooting pass 800 yards. You absolutely dont need it.

Calculate you scope elevation total clicks to be sure. Know that your 20 moa base takes away 20 inch of elevation at 100 yards. thats 80 clicks for a 1/4 scope.

anyway, it's a great powerful rifle. have fun with it !!!!
 
Are you 100% sure started with reticle in dead center of elevation travel?

Don't assume it's in the center from the factory .
 
So.. I took it all apart, re-fit the whole set up and torqued to spec. Made sure it was all as it should be.

Range trip = bang on at 100 metres. The thing is accurate as heck now. I will chalk this up to user error?.. Not sure what I was doing wrong. Could have been a bad day..

So all is well with the 20moa rail, Z rings and Leupold VX2. It does sit a bit high, could have went with low rings but it looks and handles pretty nice now.

Very accurate out to 100, next time ill try out to 200.

BARTLEDAN - those pics were from the old set up, if its my previous post you were looking at.



Thanks for the true advice fellas, and the trollers. ONE day maybe I will be considered a true gun nut lol.


Mack

Hey Mack, this is a rough crowd. Time in the sport and disposable income sometimes temp otherwise sound folk to have an "internet cranky" attack. There are a few posters here with more years in the sport than I've been around, but most are within 10 years of my age. I also have a long action Savage with a 20MOA rail. Makes mounting scope easier without fighting tube length/mounts issues. I have no need of the elevation, but a one time I thought about reaching out with this rifle (30-06). Trigger time has taught me that it's cheaper to have a rifle devoted to long range because the stock design, optics etc for hunting don't cross over very well, let alone the weight issues that often come up with a "precision" rifle. Glad the 338 doesn't beat you up too bad. BUM was right about 5MOA in the prone leaving room for a lot of improvement. I'm not a great shot and I approach that offhand, occasionally better. I found the sling stud bipod on my Savage 116 stock was ####ty for me. I shoot better off a kids portapotty(pink if you are wondering) with a cheap Caldwell bag on top (the potty was in the wife's vehicle when I was in need and frustrated). Several 200M 4 rnd groups under 1 MOA. Bullet construction choice is more important than weight (North America is my experience), but reloading is the only way to shoot much unless you don't worry about money.
 
Lots of advice here.... And I will give you some more..... But more basic.....

The .338 Is not a sniper cartridge.... So why all of the MOA rail / fancy ring stuff?..... Just put a good quality set of rings on the thing and dial it in at your desired zero....... It's really that simple..... You start complicating things, you are going to start getting complications....
 
Thanks for the info on this rifle. Came across this rifle and thought the recoil would have been more then described. I guess it all has to do with the design on the stock. I have shot my brothers 338 WM in a Ruger and never liked the recoil. I guess next is to see how it handles at the store. This rifle would make for an excellent thumper to take care of business...
 
If the ammo was hornady superformance factory ammo, that stuff is loaded pretty hot. I don't know if it reaches claimed velocities in a 20 inch barrel or even in my 24+ inch barrel but I would take the (evil non premium) hornady bullet in 250 grain round nose handloaded at a lower velocity for my shoulder any day.

Judging by the .375 test results the same make of bullet does quite well at reasonable velocities.
 
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