savage American Classic, anyone??
- Thread starter hunterhenderson
- Start date
Crap, when I saw Savage American classic I hoped this would be an 1899 lever action in the old traditional chamberings.
To be honest I will side with BigRed for the looks of the Savage bolt guns, although I don't prefer his Tikka either.
BRING BACK THE 1899!!!!!!!!!!!
To be honest I will side with BigRed for the looks of the Savage bolt guns, although I don't prefer his Tikka either.
BRING BACK THE 1899!!!!!!!!!!!
nitpicker.... cut is cut and button pulled is still cutting the barrelPEI ROB said:You are still mis-informed BIGREDD. Savage uses Button Pulled barrels, the same method as Lilja, Hart etc. And as far as cut rifling goes, tell Krieger to "step into the 50's at least" and buy a hammer forging machine
And a custom barrel by Krieger or Lilja is a far cry from one cut in a factory by 7 dollar an hour trailer park people
... most custom barrel makers can not afford a million dollar forging machine.
Republic of Alberta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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I think this Savage has a different feed setup. Straight line feed with a clip.
death-junky
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Moose Jaw SK
i hate to brake it to you but that is a typo its over 650$hunterhenderson said:
talk to ya all later
Riley
Engraving does not remove metal???? I still can't get my head around that one. But I concede your point Ted.... button rifling does engrave the barrel.
I was only hammering away on Savages to get a rise out of Darryl... and I do know that the best Match Grade barrels made in the world are button rifled.
My only Custom rifle has a Douglas Stainless barrel and it is without a doubt the best barrel I own.
I was only hammering away on Savages to get a rise out of Darryl... and I do know that the best Match Grade barrels made in the world are button rifled.
My only Custom rifle has a Douglas Stainless barrel and it is without a doubt the best barrel I own.
Its just a little ballbusting between us.
Redd hacks on me because I like Savages. I concede they are not the cutest rifles on the planet, but they work. See Redd lives in a part of the world where Savage rifles are very plentiful, and cheap. You see lots of em, and you begin to hate em. Its a local Phenominon.
Its nothing personal, I just know that he would rather a nice looking rifle than an accurate one
I just sold my favourite old LH 300 WM to another guy on the board, but still have the 114 I bought for my dad in 270. (Which the deal was arranged by no other than BIGREDD, so he cant hate em too much )
I think there will allways be a savage or 2 in my gunroom. (and Likely a few Lakefields too)
Redd hacks on me because I like Savages. I concede they are not the cutest rifles on the planet, but they work. See Redd lives in a part of the world where Savage rifles are very plentiful, and cheap. You see lots of em, and you begin to hate em. Its a local Phenominon.
Its nothing personal, I just know that he would rather a nice looking rifle than an accurate one
I just sold my favourite old LH 300 WM to another guy on the board, but still have the 114 I bought for my dad in 270. (Which the deal was arranged by no other than BIGREDD, so he cant hate em too much
)I think there will allways be a savage or 2 in my gunroom. (and Likely a few Lakefields too)
If I ever say that Savage rifles are pretty... put the ball-gag on me quick.
I have never seen a Savage center fire that would not shoot well.... they are good shooters let there be no doubt!
Freaking barrel nut makes my teeth hurt though.....
I have never seen a Savage center fire that would not shoot well.... they are good shooters let there be no doubt!
Freaking barrel nut makes my teeth hurt though.....
BIGREDD said:
I hear ya man.... I love hacking on the Tikka's just to get your blood boiling
I will admit this publicly for the umpteenth time:Friends Don't Let Friends shoot Savages!!!!!
The Word "Savage" and "Classic" don't belong in the same sentence....
They do shoot though, but guys, have some pride
280_ACKLEY
280_ACKLEY said:but guys, have some pride
280_ACKLEY
I do, Savage cares so much about Canadians that they employ a bunch at factories right here in Canada.
And as far as I know, Remington couldnt give a #### about us measly 4%
I gots pride yo
Mass Produced Button Rifled Barrels - A football shaped button is pulled through the barrel by about 10 000 lbs force. It dents the grooves into the barrel smoothing them out considerably. The remaining bore surface is now the lands, which is relatively unchanged in finish quality. No amount of stress is induced, the chamber is reamed.
Hammer Forged Barrels - A hugh freaking nosiy white elephant pounds the crap out of chunk of scrap, stressing the #### out of it, stretchs it to almost double it length, and chambers it at the same time and the inside finish is smoothed out enough to stop the fuzzy look. You don't even want to breathe on the "Finished" barrel for fear it will warp like a juniper flagpole. They are then rolled on the floor grates and the ones that are straight enough to fall through the first set of grates are put on the 40X, second grates are for P's and the third grates are for 700's. Cattle are scared to walk across the third gate. The ones that "Don't Make the Grate" are heated red hot on a V block and the bow is hammered of them and set aside for 710's.
Hammer Forged Barrels - A hugh freaking nosiy white elephant pounds the crap out of chunk of scrap, stressing the #### out of it, stretchs it to almost double it length, and chambers it at the same time and the inside finish is smoothed out enough to stop the fuzzy look. You don't even want to breathe on the "Finished" barrel for fear it will warp like a juniper flagpole. They are then rolled on the floor grates and the ones that are straight enough to fall through the first set of grates are put on the 40X, second grates are for P's and the third grates are for 700's. Cattle are scared to walk across the third gate. The ones that "Don't Make the Grate" are heated red hot on a V block and the bow is hammered of them and set aside for 710's.
You should read this Rob...
HAMMER RIFLING.
The technique of hammer forging rifle barrels was developed by Germany before WW2 because the MG42 machine gun, with 1200 rounds per minute rate of fire, positively ate barrels. The first hammer rifling machine was built in Erfurt in 1939. At the end of the war it was shipped down to Austria ahead of the advancing Russian army, where American technicians were able to get a good look at it.
In this process the barrel blank is usually somewhat shorter than the finished barrel. It is drilled and honed to a diameter large enough to allow a Tungsten Carbide mandrel, which has the rifling in high relief on it, to pass down the blank. The blank is then progressively hammered around the mandrel by opposing hammers using a process called rotary forging. The hammered blank is squeezed off the mandrel like tooth paste and finishes up 30% or so longer than it started.
Today, barrel hammering machines are built by Gesellschaft Fur Fertigungstechnik und Maschinenbau (GFM) in Steyr, Austria. They cost about a half a million dollars and can spit out a barrel every three minutes. These machines have reached a very high degree of development and are so sophisticated that they will not only hammer the rifling into the barrel, but it is also possible to chamber it and profile the outside of the barrel all in the one operation. Only large scale arms manufacturers and ordinance factories have pockets deep enough and barrel requirements insatiable enough that they can afford to buy and run such a machine.
Hammered barrels have never achieved much favour in target shooting. Whilst their proponents laud the virtues of the mirror finish of the bore and its work hardened surface, which gives long life, the barrels tend to be very variable in the uniformity of their dimensions down their length. Also, because the metal is worked completely throughout the barrel there are considerable radial stresses induced which are difficult to remove completely by the usual stress relieving methods. Stainless steels tend to work harden to a much higher degree than Chrome Molybdenum steels and so do not remain malleable enough to hammer forge. Because of this, it is difficult to make stainless barrels this way. Stainless barrels are being hammer forged, but using type 410 steel which has a lower chrome content than the regular 416 steel usually used for making barrels by other methods.
Most of the big hunting rifle makers in Europe hammer forge their barrels. Sako and Tikka in Finland, Heckler & Koch, Steyr and Sauer in Austria. Now, Ruger in the US has started making barrels using this method.
The ability to relieve stress in hammer forged barrels is virtually perfected and this is evidenced by the sub MOA accuracy of these European made rifle barrels.
The new Rugers are certainly no slouch in the accuracy dept. either.
HAMMER RIFLING.
The technique of hammer forging rifle barrels was developed by Germany before WW2 because the MG42 machine gun, with 1200 rounds per minute rate of fire, positively ate barrels. The first hammer rifling machine was built in Erfurt in 1939. At the end of the war it was shipped down to Austria ahead of the advancing Russian army, where American technicians were able to get a good look at it.
In this process the barrel blank is usually somewhat shorter than the finished barrel. It is drilled and honed to a diameter large enough to allow a Tungsten Carbide mandrel, which has the rifling in high relief on it, to pass down the blank. The blank is then progressively hammered around the mandrel by opposing hammers using a process called rotary forging. The hammered blank is squeezed off the mandrel like tooth paste and finishes up 30% or so longer than it started.
Today, barrel hammering machines are built by Gesellschaft Fur Fertigungstechnik und Maschinenbau (GFM) in Steyr, Austria. They cost about a half a million dollars and can spit out a barrel every three minutes. These machines have reached a very high degree of development and are so sophisticated that they will not only hammer the rifling into the barrel, but it is also possible to chamber it and profile the outside of the barrel all in the one operation. Only large scale arms manufacturers and ordinance factories have pockets deep enough and barrel requirements insatiable enough that they can afford to buy and run such a machine.
Hammered barrels have never achieved much favour in target shooting. Whilst their proponents laud the virtues of the mirror finish of the bore and its work hardened surface, which gives long life, the barrels tend to be very variable in the uniformity of their dimensions down their length. Also, because the metal is worked completely throughout the barrel there are considerable radial stresses induced which are difficult to remove completely by the usual stress relieving methods. Stainless steels tend to work harden to a much higher degree than Chrome Molybdenum steels and so do not remain malleable enough to hammer forge. Because of this, it is difficult to make stainless barrels this way. Stainless barrels are being hammer forged, but using type 410 steel which has a lower chrome content than the regular 416 steel usually used for making barrels by other methods.
Most of the big hunting rifle makers in Europe hammer forge their barrels. Sako and Tikka in Finland, Heckler & Koch, Steyr and Sauer in Austria. Now, Ruger in the US has started making barrels using this method.
The ability to relieve stress in hammer forged barrels is virtually perfected and this is evidenced by the sub MOA accuracy of these European made rifle barrels.
The new Rugers are certainly no slouch in the accuracy dept. either.
280_ACKLEY said:I hear ya man.... I love hacking on the Tikka's just to get your blood boiling
Friends Don't Let Friends shoot Savages!!!!!
The Word "Savage" and "Classic" don't belong in the same sentence....
They do shoot though, but guys, have some pride
280_ACKLEY
Does that mean we are no longer friends Richard?....and why do you always ask to handle my rubber stocked Sav. Scout every time you visit?.....yep its ugly I must admit but it is still one of my favorite rifles.... .60" with rem bulk bullets and RL-15 first 3 shot group after site in and I don't have to baby it......mic
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