Savage Axis 22-250 Chamber/Throat

Slug870

Slug870

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
168   0   0
Location
ON
So I was in the gun room getting ready to load up some ammo and begin load development for my Savage Axis 22-250 which is my coyote/varmint rifle, when I hit a wall...

Obviously, my first step was to use the Harnady OAL gauge and determine proper seating depth and COAL using Hornady 50gr VMax. When I inserted the gauge and took the normal steps associated with the procedure, I was a little surprised with what I found. When the bullet was seated to the lands, it left virtually no depth in the case mouth for bullet seating. I repeated the process three more times; all yielding the same results.

I then decided to try it using 50gr Barnes Varmint Grenades as they are a noticeably longer bullet. When I repeated the process; I ended up with approx 1/8" of seating depth available for the bullet, and a 22-250 cartridge which resembled a miniature 6.5x55 round in that the bullet was sticking so far out of the case mouth that it was awkwardly funny. Even with this strange looking cartridge, I decided to take some measurements. The COAL was 2.304" (Max is listed as 2.350"). My brass (once fired Winchester) was trimmed to 1.904" (Max listed as 1.912").

I am at a bit of a loss here... I cannot load the 50gr VMax and be anywhere near the lands, and if I use the 50gr Varmint Grenades and want to be near the lands, I face what is in my opinion, an unsafe seating depth.

Is anyone out there reloading 22-250 for their Savage Axis, and if so, can you comment on whether or not they have an unusually long throat as a norm? I am uncertain how to proceed as I would have liked to have seated the bullets 15-20 thou off the lands during load development; however it appears that may not be a possibility.
 
Slug870 said:
Obviously, my first step was to use the Harnady OAL gauge and determine proper seating depth and COAL using Hornady 50gr VMax. When I inserted the gauge and took the normal steps associated with the procedure, I was a little surprised with what I found. When the bullet was seated to the lands, it left virtually no depth in the case mouth for bullet seating. I repeated the process three more times; all yielding the same results.
Click to expand...

I was stupefied by a similar result with my Savage 10 PC. It looked like this, with a Hornady SP:

tagN9MI.jpg


The consensus was that Savages have absurdly long throats and there was nothing that could be done about it.

Someone also replied with specific info about the Savage 22-250:

I had a .22-250 barrel that had such a long throat that in order to touch the lands I could only sink a 55gr bullet around .085" into the case. It would just barely hold it there, and all you had to do was bump it and you'd lose concentricity. I just got really good at not touching the bullets when I loaded them. It was a really accurate barrel with 55gr V-Max, but a pain to load for and shoot
Click to expand...

Personally, I'm not all that worried about it at this stage in my reloading game. I'm not sure what I'll do when I get around to playing with seating depth (although I'm frankly not 100% convinced at this point that there is a reliable and reproducible effect on accuracy).
 
HeavyTread said:
The consensus was that Savages have absurdly long throats and there was nothing that could be done about it.
Click to expand...

Most lower price (AKA Budget) factory rifles have a generous amount of throat.

Load it to the published COAL, adjust for accuracy after. The Barnes bullets will accept more jump, and still be happy.

What twist is the barrel? Could you go heavier/longer?
 
Yeah, I figured that would be the case with the Axis. I am not overly concerned as it is my "beater" rifle for taking out and bouncing around the wheeler, laying in snowbanks etc; but it is surprisingly accurate with factory ammo and I wanted to load as good as possible to further that accuracy.

The barrel is a 1-12 twist, so I am not sure how heavy I can go. I will load to published COAL and see how she performs, I should see some improvements over factory ammo (I would hope).
 
Longer throats will allow for longer bearing bullets. OAL is limited by mag feeding. Your axis or savage in general has a generous mag. If you single feed your 22-250 you will get 69smks to work well with the 12 twist as will the 52gr TSX. 60gr Hornady sps work very well. Go to the 70tsx and you will be spraying bullets around in big clusters. I tried IMR 4350 with the 69smk and was pleasantly surprised.
 
CanuckWR said:
Most lower price (AKA Budget) factory rifles have a generous amount of throat.

Load it to the published COAL, adjust for accuracy after.
Click to expand...

You're not kidding. Makes me wonder about all the perseverating about 5.56 vs. .223 when the throat of a supposed .223 is that long.

Thing is, I'm not complaining about the accuracy of that rifle. With 60 gr VMAX bullets, using a vanilla powder load and the published OAL, it's very, very accurate.
 
My 223 axis would take 2.4XX" If I could load that far out. Maybe with 75gr amax or something longer. I load to mag length and works out very good for me. My model 14 22-250 doesn't have such a long throat but still have a hard time getting to the lands with 50gr bullets. Factory 40 and 50gr ammo shoots one hole groups at whatever length they use so that doesn't seem to be a problem. Try loading 53gr vmax they have a bc of .290. Best bc around until you get up past 60gr pills.
 
Todays rifles must have a throat long enough to fit a bullet and the company lawyer in to reduce lawsuits and chamber pressure.

My Savage .223 has a longer throat than either of my AR15 5.56 rifles do and can be loaded a little hotter.

The .223 has a rated chamber pressure of 52,000 cup or 55,000 psi, now look at the chart below. The factory .223 ammunition fired in the .223 rifle was approximately 49,000 psi. When the same commercial ammunition was fired in the AR15 rifle with a longer throat the chamber pressure was approximately 44,000 psi. Weatherby rifles are known for their sizzling higher velocities, Weatherby does this with a longer throat BUT Weatherby rifles don't win any benchrest accuracy contests either.

barnes-pressure_zps9347fe41.jpg


Please notice above that the last blue bar on the far right is a military 5.56 cartridge fired in a military rifle with a longer throat. The chamber pressure is approximately 55,000 psi and matches milspec requirements for 5.56 ammunition.

MIL-C-9963F
15 October 1976
SUPERSEDING
MIL-C-9963E
12 May 1970

MILITARY SPECIFICATION
CARTRIDGE, 5.56MM, BALL, M193

3.7 Chamber pressure.

3.7.1 Measurement by copper-crush cylinder.-The average chamber pressure of the sample cartridges, conditioned at 70° ± 2°F, shall not exceed 52,000 pounds per square inch (PSI). The average chamber pressure plus three standard deviations of chamber pressure shall not exceed 58,000 PSI.

3.7.2 Measurement by piezoelectric transducer.-The average chamber
pressure of the sample cartridges, conditioned at 70° ± 2°F, shall not
exceed 55,000 PSI. The average chamber pressure plus three standard
deviations of chamber pressure shall not exceed 61,000 PSI.

 
Last edited:
Slug870 said:
Yeah, I figured that would be the case with the Axis. I am not overly concerned as it is my "beater" rifle for taking out and bouncing around the wheeler, laying in snowbanks etc; but it is surprisingly accurate with factory ammo and I wanted to load as good as possible to further that accuracy.

The barrel is a 1-12 twist, so I am not sure how heavy I can go. I will load to published COAL and see how she performs, I should see some improvements over factory ammo (I would hope).
Click to expand...

You will see improved performance over factory because you can tune the load to your barrel. Don't get stuck thinking optimum performance will be found while kissing the lands. That is a trick precision shooters use to get every grain of case capacity and ensure repeatable, consistent performance. A dog won't know the difference between a 0.25MOA load and a 0.5MOA load. I think in a hunting situation you would want deadly reliable cycling for quick following up shots and close to MOA accuracy. Find an accurate powder charge, try a few loads seated 20, 30, 40, and maybe 60 thousands out to see if it helps and go kill dogs. Just my $0.02, but I wouldn't over think it.

Now if that was a 9 twist barrel, it would be different. ;)
 
CanuckWR said:
You will see improved performance over factory because you can tune the load to your barrel. Don't get stuck thinking optimum performance will be found while kissing the lands. That is a trick precision shooters use to get every grain of case capacity and ensure repeatable, consistent performance. A dog won't know the difference between a 0.25MOA load and a 0.5MOA load. I think in a hunting situation you would want deadly reliable cycling for quick following up shots and close to MOA accuracy. Find an accurate powder charge, try a few loads seated 20, 30, 40, and maybe 60 thousands out to see if it helps and go kill dogs. Just my $0.02, but I wouldn't over think it.

Now if that was a 9 twist barrel, it would be different. ;)
Click to expand...

Ooh! Ooh! I have a 1:9 twist barrel.

My powder pan is tared and empty. Please dispense 40 gr of wisdom.

No, seriously. Is there actually anything to seating close to the lands other than increased case capacity?
 
Sounds like my X-bolt in 223 Rem, even loaded at the max cartridge oal from my manual I'm still 72 thou off the lands. Doesn't seem to mind as it is my most accurate rifle so far.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom