Savage Target Actions - reviews?

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Hi - just wondering what folks here think about the Savage Target (i.e. the 3-screw) Action? Good, bad, indifferent?

I'm thinking F-Class - can it compete alongside the more expensive (Stiller/BAT/Lawton, etc.) custom actions?

Looking forward to user experiences!
 
I've got a savage target action (with factory barrel) it feeds (as in doesn't jam on closing being a single shot) and ejects reliably . Relatively smooth to operate

Would I put it any where near the same class as defiance . Surgeon. , stiller or the likes .... No no where even close . But for what it costs in comparison I wouldn't say don't do it to some one on a smaller budget wanting to do a custom
 
The Savage tolerance may not be as good as the custom action but they shoot really well as I witnessed this weekend at the BC F class Championship.

Here is some food for thought when it was raining hard on the first day of competition. There were a few competitors had issues with blown primers, causing their custom action to not lock properly. The little extra rain, powder from the blown primer and debris caused tolerance issues with precision action. The savage action with the floating bolt head where still able to function with the extra variables thrown in.
 
The Savage tolerances are in many ways BETTER then the custom actions cause these actions will still function and go bang under inclement weather. All the fancy in the world doesn't mean much if it fails in competition. I fully expect to see equipment issues in RATON during the US Nationals and Worlds. The environment is harsh and loves to eat up all those fancy zero tolerance receivers.

And shooters from other parts of the World were running Savage rifles last year at the US Nationals as well. Do you think you fly around the world with gear you don't think performs?

So can a Savage action compete with the solid front locking bolt actions? YES. For F class, I have found no material difference in actual holes in paper and scores. AND I have the security that my repeating action will likely survive much more abuse then any tight tolerance action.

Most forget that the only time an action needs to be tight is at lock up and the Savage most certainly is.

If the question was, is the target action better then the repeating Savage? NO, there is no material advantage except not having to put in a single shot follower. Depending on the stock you want to use and how goofy a bolt spacing you have on the target receiver, aftermarket options will be more limited.

Jerry
 
they are a single shot factory savage action sold in a niche market. They are the Cadillac Cimmaron of target actions. Buy a BAT or just buy a stevens and drink from the CGN koolaid
 
paperslayer said:
they are a single shot factory savage action sold in a niche market. They are the Cadillac Cimmaron of target actions. Buy a BAT or just buy a stevens and drink from the CGN koolaid
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Ahhhh the Koolaid is always good on CGN. In all seriousness if I had a choice of a custom build I would save up and go with a custom action. I not a huge fan of the target accutrigger or the accutrigger in general and the aftermarket triggers by timney et all just do not appeal to me. The only good aftermarket trigger for the Savage IMO are the SSS triggers.

I've got two builds on Savage actions I think it's enough to get me some trigger time but from here on out it will be on more towards the Barnard or other custom action brand.
 
a Savage target action is a good basic single shot action and in no way, no way, it can challenge a true custom action. I had 2 Savage, FTR and a dual port (bought from ellwood epps), a Barnard Type S and a Kelbly F-class.

What is making a good action is not only about the bolt itself, rigidity is something important. To hold a 30in, heavy target barrel, it need "meet" behing it. The Savage is a really soft action. The secret is in the bedding, and tension on action screw. You need to have a barrel with at least 5in straight taper to be able to bed in front of recoil lug. On the opposite, the tang must absolutely be floating, not even bedded is better. Once you got all that figure out, you need to play with tension on action screws before starting load dev as you may shoot for nothing.... The accutrigger is very nice (personal impression). I've tried a rifle basix and I can confirm what Jerry is saying, very good trigger.

So to resume, yes you can produce an accurate rifle with a Savage action, but you will never perform with the same stability as a custom action. What can make an action make boom while the other is not....more of a mechanical problem than weather to my HUMBLE OPINION
 
WG300 said:
a Savage target action is a good basic single shot action and in no way, no way, it can challenge a true custom action. I had 2 Savage, FTR and a dual port (bought from ellwood epps), a Barnard Type S and a Kelbly F-class.

What is making a good action is not only about the bolt itself, rigidity is something important. To hold a 30in, heavy target barrel, it need "meet" behing it. The Savage is a really soft action. The secret is in the bedding, and tension on action screw. You need to have a barrel with at least 5in straight taper to be able to bed in front of recoil lug. On the opposite, the tang must absolutely be floating, not even bedded is better. Once you got all that figure out, you need to play with tension on action screws before starting load dev as you may shoot for nothing.... The accutrigger is very nice (personal impression). I've tried a rifle basix and I can confirm what Jerry is saying, very good trigger.

So to resume, yes you can produce an accurate rifle with a Savage action, but you will never perform with the same stability as a custom action. What can make an action make boom while the other is not....more of a mechanical problem than weather to my HUMBLE OPINION
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don't know about given the sizing of the receiver and thickness of the action walls. No worse then a Rem SA or clone.

Bedding is important with any action and you can bend any action if the bedding is bad enough. Needing to tweak action bolt tension is a sure sign the action and barrel are not supported properly. some of this can be traced back to the stock.

And if you have a soft stock/bedding, the Savage action is far better designed to deal with this shortcoming then ANY solid bolt front locking action. I am sure you will hear discussions on stocks and how some 'fancy' brands just aren't working as desired.

Mechanical accuracy wrt F class is not hindered by most any properly set up action. I have seen Mausers do very well.

If actions were the deciding factor in F class performance, the diversity of actions used wouldn't be so wide. Pretty sure we will see most everything being used in Raton.

And I am sure you will see a good assortment of Savage receivers at the biggest match of our sport.
Jerry

PS which brand offers more 30" factory rifles then any other manf? Savage..... would be pretty silly if they were having all manner of mechanical woes. have a chat with team Savage, might be very enlightening on their results.
 
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I agree and it will be fun to generate discussion once there )))

Its not only about the amount of wall thickness but mainly about the steel grade itself that will produce rigidity. The fact that a flexible stock with be a good fit for the SAvage action is forgetting about the principal of pillar bedding, the purpose is to isolate one from the other.

I agree that we will see all kind of action on the line, but the one in front are the one interesting me. If someone finish last with a Mauser 1918, we cant say, well, that is a good action for F-Class, it was used in Raton )))) We just don't see any Rem700 in the front package anymore. Its a good action depending on what accuracy you are looking for and able to reproduce.

If we come back to the initial question and wonder if a shooter should build something on a Savage action for F-Class, i'll say why not. You can definitely have fun at a 1000yds with a gun shooting 1/2 moa. Once we are aware of the particularity of this action, just take the time to mount it properly and it will shoot....

Jonathan
 
It is worth clarifying that rigidity(Young's modulus) of metal components, have it be steel or stainless, has very very little to do with the grade or hardness itself and all to do with thickness and shape and no grade change can make up for that.
 
As Jerry mentions, Team Savage compete and win/place with guns with the Savage Target Action. That says a lot to this old guy.

Sure, I'd really like to have a complete custom built rifle with a high end action. However, with my shooting abilities and budget, it's tough to justify. Perhaps if I had a lot of available funds and was at the level to really compete at an event such as Raton, I would own a custom built gun.

The reason I 'chimed' in here is that I am in the middle of putting together a .223 rifle that I am sure will shoot better than I.

I purchased a Savage Target action recently for it. There was a mistake made on the order (not by me!) and my new action arrived with a 26" .223 heavy (did I say Heavy!) barrel that comes on their 12 LRPV.

I was already collecting other parts as I waited for the action to arrive, I purchased:

- Kreiger .223 1:7.5 30" barrel blank
- Choate Custom Tactical stock (thanks to Jerry)
- Farrel 20 MOA mount
- NF steel ring set
- Rifle Basix trigger group

I have a spare NF 5.5-22X56 and a Sightron 8-32X56 LRMOA. I'm still debating what to mount!

I've been emailing Jerry to get his opinion on my parts build and what to do barrel wise. I/we have decided that I am going to bed the Savage action/barrel and shoot the gun until the fall, then install the Kreiger for next years shooting.

Now, back to the Savage Target Action. I ordered the right bolt, left load/eject port.

The single port is realitively small when compared to the ejection port on the likes of a standard Savage, Remington and even some higher end actions I've seen. Add a magazine opening (Savage and Rem) and more action wall material is removed. IMHO the more openings and the size of the openings reduces the strength/rigidity of a pipe section (which most actions are). As mentioned above, the material used, S.S. or carbon steel has little to do with rigidity of an action if they share common dia/thickness.

This will be my first real precision rifle. Who knows, if I can develop my shooting skills to a higher level, and I decide to compete, some day I may move up to a complete custom build.
However, for now, I have a feeling this parts build will keep me fairly happy.
 
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yes material have something to do with rigidity, Barnard are made out of Chromoly and hardened to 38rc, which, is way more rigid than stainless or steel. Its not only about volume (read thickness) but also about the choice of material. If we look at the Kelbly, which is made out of alluminium, the rigidity is made using a proper shape.

Another thing I forgot to mention about the Savage, PTG is producing as a low cost, a replacement head that fix the problem of the bolt face producing protusion around the primer. The piece is REALLY worth it. I had it on my Dual port which help a lot.

Yes Savage have a team that perform really well.....but. They must know how to "deal" with the weakness of the action (bedding properly) and also, is it the original barrel ? If it is, maybe the shooter had test 50..100 rifles and took the best one !

Jut to be sure we understand each other, i'm not saying that this action is a piece of ####, i'm just saying that it will be more sensitive to make it shoot, and once it do shoot, you will not achieve the sme precision as a full custom action.
 
As I mentioned, for a novice long range shooter, I feel that the above build will shoot better than I can. As a novice, I also feel that it would be somewhat foolish to purchase I high end action, stock, scope, etc. as a first gun.

Savage also use heat treated 4130 chromoly to manufacture their carbon steel actions. I would suspect their engineers, consultants, etc. would have put a lot of thought into what material to use for their target actions. If they select S.S. it must have been for a valid reason. It sure wasn't for ease of machining, as non-heat treated 4130 'machines freely', much easier than S.S.!

Again as I mentioned, IF I find I enjoy longer range precision shooting and my skills improve, either a PGW rifle, or a custom built gun using a high end action, in a McMillian or Manners stock, in a different caliber, with perhaps a S&B scope mounted would most likely be my next move.

Oh, I am like you, I highly doubt Team Savage use stock factory barrels, maybe hand selected, but I would suspect it's a custom high end barrel! I don't recall ever seeing one of their stock rifles fitted with one of those 'neat' barrel heat shields Team Savage uses!!
 
As much as we discuss and fondle actions, they play a surprisingly small role in the overall performance of a precision rifle. compare the performance of all the various aftermarket smog and you will find that in F class type rigs, they hit a wall in performance. Why?

Barrels... plan and simple. It is not a problem to make just about anything crowd the 1/4 to 1/3 min accuracy for 5.... even up to 10 rds out to 300m BUT when you push out to 22rds, I have yet to see anything not change due to barrel heat. Some quite spectacularly. Smaller cases will be easier on barrels but smaller cases don't play well at 1000yds.

I bet if you surveyed the top 50 rifles and the middle 50 rifles at Raton, there will be many similarities if not the same brands repeated over again.

LR F class rigs for me is all about repeatable consistency under less then ideal conditions. Things will get hot, dirty and fouled. If a rig can still maintain sub 1/2 min performance at 1000yds at the end of the day, that is all anyone needs to win at the highest levels.

Why? Because wind is what this sport is all about. Best rifle to "just" competitive is 1/4 min difference at the very most. Best wind reader to some one further back..... WAY more.

For FTR, there is nothing shot that will keep you in the 10 ring if you miss a 2mph change. You are moving anywhere from 3/4 to 1 1/4 min even at the higher elevation of Raton. At sea level, you can be pushed 1.5 min with a gentle gust.

From center, 1 min is the edge of the 9 ring. Group not quite centered, 8 or worst. hit a twitch and going from waterline 10/x's to a 2oclock 7 is not unheard of. We will see a few in the coming weeks I am sure.

Shooters like to move into the "custom" stuff as they advance in their sport. Some parts will improve performance - albeit slight or how poor their previous stuff was. Mostly it is pride in ownership AND the mental confidence the gear might bring. Plus a lot of it just looks damn good and someone took the time to make things run smoothly.

Anyone who has had bolt timing done properly on a Savage is going to be pretty darn surprised at how nice their actions run. I have compared to some custom actions and they don't run as nicely. And yes, we see just about everything through the guns that we build.

Hang out at matches long enough and you will hear both good and bad for every brand and part under the sun. If there was one sure answer, you better believe we would be using it.

The big variable is the barrel and this applies to every brand and style of manf. Then of course install. Some will shoot, others don't. And I mean from the same Manf.

The only thing an action does is allow the primer to be hit and control the pressures of ignition. If all is tight and straight, modern actions simply get the job done.

Bedding handles the harmonics and support the mass of the parts. Yes, you can use a more robust action to fully support the mass of the barrel but that makes for an overly heavy receiver and I have better places to put that mass.

The sport and gear evolve and we are going to see some interesting results after Raton.

A breakthrough in action technology will not be one of those things.

Note, not everyone is happy with some composite stocks as recoil levels ramp up. Many are looking towards lam stocks for a variety of functional benefits.

Optics is about seeing the air as much as it is the target. The main brands have their followers and all products have their good and bad. Again, no clear winner.

Bullets are going to see lots of innovation in the coming years. Do you really think the huge red and green companies are going to let little yellow brand run off with this market? Once the US hording chaos is over, we will likely see a new range of high BC heavies in 7mm and 30cal.

I expect a split in F TR rifle set ups in the coming while. Expect to have a few interesting conversations and demos in the coming weeks.
Jerry

PS talking to members of team savage, they really do use complete Savage factory rifles. They even had to fight to allow them to do conventional bedding. Savage demands that the rifles used can be called "off the rack". Sorting is easy as all Savage rifle are supposed to be proofed at the factory. Stick up a target, put aside rifles that show more promise. But given how many shooters report excellent out of the box performance, Savage is making the best factory barrels in the US right now.
 
Some great info. in your posts Jerry regarding the OP question. Thanks for your input, I will pass some of your comments on to my good friend at Savage Arms.

Thank you again for taking the time to answer my questions on my parts build.

Good luck at Raton.
 
WG300 said:
yes material have something to do with rigidity, Barnard are made out of Chromoly and hardened to 38rc, which, is way more rigid than stainless or steel. Its not only about volume (read thickness) but also about the choice of material.
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Unfortunately, as I too learned a few years ago, materials only work that way in people's head. Modulus of Elasticity and Shear Modulus are what they are and are not affected by temper or hardness.


Barnards are primarily more solid than most (if not all) common actions because their bolt/lug design doesn't require cutting 2 keyways the whole length of the action(and the P model is bigger OD). high 30's HRC is common to all actions, its a requirement of function and longevity, just as going too hard wouldn't be any good either.
 
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