I always find it hard to get any useful info out of a thread like this when nobody is putting the FPS variation of the loads coming of their favorite scale, and some idea of how far they're shooting probably wouldn't hurt either.
Scales......
- Thread starter shelby78
- Start date
My ammunition loaded for the .260 rem, with my RCBS Chargemaster, was shot out to 1050 yards this summer. Confirmed hits past a 1000 is good enough for me. I use the gempro for smaller cases like the fast twist .223
I don't recall what the ES was for velocity. All that was stored on my old phone. I changed my load a tad so I'll be chronographing my new loads once more.
I don't recall what the ES was for velocity. All that was stored on my old phone. I changed my load a tad so I'll be chronographing my new loads once more.
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Me & my buds all use Vibra 3 decimal place balance.
You can get from Lucian Voiculet Balance Canada Inc. in Quebec
My advice is to forget you ever heard of a chargemaster and spend that cash on a more accurate 2 or 3 decimal place scale.
If you are into long range shooting, you need the accuracy of a very precise scale.
I had a Chargemaster and traded it for a set of Lee powder scoops and a salad bowl. It's almost as accurate then I fix the load up on the good Vibra scale.
BTW - the Vibra is self calibrating and the tuning fork load sensing unit is impervious to magnetic interference unlike the load cell or magnetic force reconstruction models.
You might think that a scale this accurate would drift like crazy - but not so. This thing drifts in the 3rd decimal place less than my old Sartorius drifted in the 2nd decimal place.
If you cant afford a Vibra then try Walter Products in Windsor Ontario. They sell mostly to schools Colleges and Universities but also to the general public. They have some 3 decimal place balances for around $400-500
You can get from Lucian Voiculet Balance Canada Inc. in Quebec
My advice is to forget you ever heard of a chargemaster and spend that cash on a more accurate 2 or 3 decimal place scale.
If you are into long range shooting, you need the accuracy of a very precise scale.
I had a Chargemaster and traded it for a set of Lee powder scoops and a salad bowl. It's almost as accurate then I fix the load up on the good Vibra scale.
BTW - the Vibra is self calibrating and the tuning fork load sensing unit is impervious to magnetic interference unlike the load cell or magnetic force reconstruction models.
You might think that a scale this accurate would drift like crazy - but not so. This thing drifts in the 3rd decimal place less than my old Sartorius drifted in the 2nd decimal place.
If you cant afford a Vibra then try Walter Products in Windsor Ontario. They sell mostly to schools Colleges and Universities but also to the general public. They have some 3 decimal place balances for around $400-500
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arcticcathonda
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
Well, finally bit the bullet and ordered a GemPro 250 last night. Lets hope they are all the reviews say they are! Looking forward to do some weight sorting of bullets and some accurate charges!
I still use the Lee beam scale with a powder trickler. I heard to many story of electronic scale with wandering zero that I do not trust them to measure powder. At least with the beam scale, every charge is judge be me and me alone. As far as the speed of reloading goes, I never rush my reloads, I take my time, listen to some podcasts and enjoy the moment.
This being said, I bought a used Hornady electronic scale that I will use to compare component (sort bullets and brass by weight)
This being said, I bought a used Hornady electronic scale that I will use to compare component (sort bullets and brass by weight)
We need to keep in mind that the accuracy of powder weight is relative to the distance you are shooting. If you are shooting inside about 300 yards you can use a Lee powder scoop or a RCBS thrower and get reasonable results.
Beyond about 300 yards though powder weight consistency becomes increasingly more critical as you go further out. F Class is using a ½ minute V-Bull and that means you need enough velocity consistency to hold about ¼ MOA out to 1000 yards if you have any chance of shooting a perfect score.
So assuming you have an extreme spread of 40 feet per second and the bullet you are using has a ballistic coefficient of about .450 like a 30 cal 155 Sierra Match King and you are running about 2970 FPS. A Variation in muzzle velocity of 40 FPS translates to 2.16 inches of vertical at 600 yards and 10.3 inches of vertical dispersion at 1000 yards.
That would be almost meaningless for a hunter but would place you at the bottom of the pack at a Provincial F-Class Championship when you are trying to hit a 5 inch V-Bull at 1000 yards.
So if you need to hold ¼ MOA at 1000 then you need a maximum velocity spread of less than 10 feet per second. More than likely if you are using a beam scale or a single digit digital scale you are getting about 40 FPS extreme spread. If you were to switch to a 2 decimal place scale – which indexes in increments of .02, you will be 5 times more precise with your loads than a one decimal place scale. So we divide the 40 FPS extreme spread by 5 and deduce that you can achieve a velocity spread of 8 FPS. AND if we divide the 10.3 inches of vertical at 1k by 5 we get 2.06 inches of vertical and it now becomes mathematically possible to shoot a perfect score out to 1000 yards.
So lets translate a 2 decimal place scale to powder. A single kernel of Varget weighs about .024 grains. So a 2 decimal place scale that reads perfectly can sense the difference of a single kernel of powder.
As for digital scale drifting, well they all do to some degree and if a two decimal place scale drifts by the smallest displayed value, you can be off by a full kernel of powder – plus it does round off so you can be off by 2 kernels of powder.
You can also multiply all that by 5 for a single decimal place scale that is working perfectly. 20 kernels of powder variation is about the best you will get at that my friends is .48 grains of powder. Almost ½ grain.
Remember that just because the scale displays a precise number does not mean the load weighs exactly what is displayed.
If you use a 3 decimal place scale which indexes in .002 grains and it drifts by .004 you are still well within the weight of a single kernel of Varget, so unless you want to get out a razor blade and a mirror and start chopping kernels up you will have reliable 1 kernel accuracy. AND that makes it at least mathematically possible to achieve an extreme spread of .8 FPS or .2 inches of vertical at 1000 yards.
As for digital scale drifting, that depends on a few technical and environmental factors but mostly how much money you spend and the load sensing technology. A load cell scale will drift the most and become less reliable the more you use it. Magnetic force reconstruction are very good but the load sensing mechanism is vulnerable to dust contamination so sooner or later it will require a $200 cleaning. The best type for dusty environments is the tuning fork load sensor because dust does not affect the reliability.
There are lots of us out there that think little of spending $2000 or more on a good scope, $3000 or more on a good rifle – and we probably have more than one. Based on the above, there is little point of all that if the loads we produce don’t have the potential of producing the accuracy we expect when we have that much invested in our equipment. A good 3 decimal balance will cost about $1350 CDN and you probably already have a chargmaster at about $400 so the difference is about $950. It’s up to you to decide if you want to shoot really well or just look like you “could” shoot really well.
As the saying goes... Matches are won and lost on the loading bench.
Beyond about 300 yards though powder weight consistency becomes increasingly more critical as you go further out. F Class is using a ½ minute V-Bull and that means you need enough velocity consistency to hold about ¼ MOA out to 1000 yards if you have any chance of shooting a perfect score.
So assuming you have an extreme spread of 40 feet per second and the bullet you are using has a ballistic coefficient of about .450 like a 30 cal 155 Sierra Match King and you are running about 2970 FPS. A Variation in muzzle velocity of 40 FPS translates to 2.16 inches of vertical at 600 yards and 10.3 inches of vertical dispersion at 1000 yards.
That would be almost meaningless for a hunter but would place you at the bottom of the pack at a Provincial F-Class Championship when you are trying to hit a 5 inch V-Bull at 1000 yards.
So if you need to hold ¼ MOA at 1000 then you need a maximum velocity spread of less than 10 feet per second. More than likely if you are using a beam scale or a single digit digital scale you are getting about 40 FPS extreme spread. If you were to switch to a 2 decimal place scale – which indexes in increments of .02, you will be 5 times more precise with your loads than a one decimal place scale. So we divide the 40 FPS extreme spread by 5 and deduce that you can achieve a velocity spread of 8 FPS. AND if we divide the 10.3 inches of vertical at 1k by 5 we get 2.06 inches of vertical and it now becomes mathematically possible to shoot a perfect score out to 1000 yards.
So lets translate a 2 decimal place scale to powder. A single kernel of Varget weighs about .024 grains. So a 2 decimal place scale that reads perfectly can sense the difference of a single kernel of powder.
As for digital scale drifting, well they all do to some degree and if a two decimal place scale drifts by the smallest displayed value, you can be off by a full kernel of powder – plus it does round off so you can be off by 2 kernels of powder.
You can also multiply all that by 5 for a single decimal place scale that is working perfectly. 20 kernels of powder variation is about the best you will get at that my friends is .48 grains of powder. Almost ½ grain.
Remember that just because the scale displays a precise number does not mean the load weighs exactly what is displayed.
If you use a 3 decimal place scale which indexes in .002 grains and it drifts by .004 you are still well within the weight of a single kernel of Varget, so unless you want to get out a razor blade and a mirror and start chopping kernels up you will have reliable 1 kernel accuracy. AND that makes it at least mathematically possible to achieve an extreme spread of .8 FPS or .2 inches of vertical at 1000 yards.
As for digital scale drifting, that depends on a few technical and environmental factors but mostly how much money you spend and the load sensing technology. A load cell scale will drift the most and become less reliable the more you use it. Magnetic force reconstruction are very good but the load sensing mechanism is vulnerable to dust contamination so sooner or later it will require a $200 cleaning. The best type for dusty environments is the tuning fork load sensor because dust does not affect the reliability.
There are lots of us out there that think little of spending $2000 or more on a good scope, $3000 or more on a good rifle – and we probably have more than one. Based on the above, there is little point of all that if the loads we produce don’t have the potential of producing the accuracy we expect when we have that much invested in our equipment. A good 3 decimal balance will cost about $1350 CDN and you probably already have a chargmaster at about $400 so the difference is about $950. It’s up to you to decide if you want to shoot really well or just look like you “could” shoot really well.
As the saying goes... Matches are won and lost on the loading bench.
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