SCAR vs ACR a comparison

$3531.25 with taxes for this...add a shipping fee, price for some optics and a few mags and your well over $4000 for it!!! AND its restricted!!!

I'm honestly not really sure what your point is, since those of us purchasing an ACR are well aware of the restricted status. This thread was about the comparison between the ACR and SCAR, since they're similar in price (once you factor in a folding stock), design and both restricted. A direct comparison to any other rifle (including an XCR or SA) isn't really apples-to-apples.
 
I will wait till the 18.5" barrel is factory so I don't have to pay another 500 bucks to make it non res. As well I hope they can trim some weight from the rifle its a pig.

I'm not sure how realistic a factory 18.5" barrel is, to be honest (they only indicate 10.5", 14.5" and 18" as options currently). And if anything, adding 2" to the barrel is going to take the weight in an undesired direction. But yeah, under 7bls with the stock 16.5" barrel would certainly be nice.
 
Each of these guns has their own idiosyncrasies, the SA being no exception with a heavier weight and proprietary magazine. The MR223 has the offset pins, the FS2000 is more maintenance and picky about magazines, the SCAR is unobtanium, the Tavor had the same slamfire issue as the ACR, etc.

There's certainly no question about the quality of the SA. On the other hand, $3,400 doesn't even get you so much as a single mounting rail, either. By the time you add two B&T low profile and quad rails (to match the real estate on the SCAR or ACR), you're going to be pushing upwards of $4,400. Same with the Tavor or FS2000.

All very good points. Which is why I was interested in it to begin with. And I actually like the base version with the skeletalized stock and smoother forgrip better than the setup that makes it look more like a SCAR. Not saying I don't like the SCAR just that I like the fact that they look different. However since the SCAR seems to be unobtainium something that looks like it starts to become much more appealing. :D
 
Again though, in the states I've seen basic used ones go for 1750ish, new ones for 1900ish up to 2100ish. The mark up here is insane. Do the dealers not get special pricing through their distributors? If so, then why the big price increase? OR does it take about $1000 to cover the paperwork per gun? :rolleyes: I don't wanna hear the, "they're trying to run a profitable business" BS either, the Americans have been running profitable gun businesses for years. I was interested in this rifle, but the price needs to be down around the XCR price. It's a gouge, especially with the dollar the way it is...
 
It's getting very tiresome allways hearing people #####ing about how high the price is here in Canada as compared to the USA, and how the dealers here are gauging us. NO ONE is telling you to buy anything, if you don't agree with the price then don't buy it or ##### about it. NO ONE CARES, it's the same song over and over again. BLA BLA BLA
 
Riddle me this: if the XCR is the ultimate black rifle platform, why are so many people still buying ARs and other restricted black rifles? Maybe the XCRs only redeeming quality is the non-restricted status. Remove that and I'm not sure how many could justify the price or how popular it would be (and XCR owners have as much admitted that).

I honestly don't know why people continue to complain about the high costs of these rifles when you consider the lifetime operating costs. Assuming you shoot factory ammunition, you're going to be well into it for over $10k by the time you start replacing major components. So really, what's $500 or $600 in the grand scheme of things? A case of ammunition?
 
Riddle me this: if the XCR is the ultimate black rifle platform, why are so many people still buying ARs and other restricted black rifles? Maybe the XCRs only redeeming quality is the non-restricted status. Remove that and I'm not sure how many could justify the price or how popular it would be (and XCR owners have as much admitted that).

I honestly don't know why people continue to complain about the high costs of these rifles when you consider the lifetime operating costs. Assuming you shoot factory ammunition, you're going to be well into it for over $10k by the time you start replacing major components. So really, what's $500 or $600 in the grand scheme of things? A case of ammunition?


I'd say people still buy AR's because they only or mostly shoot at a range and for $2400 you can buy a pretty nice AR with optics & extras and it will still be lighter/more maneuverable than a bare XCR.

Personally I just didn't see where the XCR fit my needs. If I'm after a non-restricted black rifle it will either need to be compact for taking in the bush or if it's not it needs to be accurate enough that it makes up for the size/weight. The XCR was neither.

I thought it was reliable and ergonomic enough but it certainly didn't do anything an AR couldn't do as well or better (short of the caliber swap).
 
Hey guys,

So the ACR and the SCAR are quite similar obviously but the ACR is a bit heavier, over a pound heavier.

If I had to pick between the two right now, I would probably go with the SCAR. It's lighter, better balanced and seems a little better thought out in terms of no-nonsense features. I do like the little gizmos of the ACR, and I generally like the rifle, but it's not without its quirks. I'll make another post after this one that I've posted elsewhere on the net about the quirks of the ACR. I should also add that the SCAR isn't without its quirks, it's just that I don't find them to be as troublesome.

Here's the weight of the two rifles.

SCAR: 7.2lbs

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ACR: 8.4lbs

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There are some little quirks with the ACR.

I broke the clip that holds the pistol grip compartment in the grip. It just snapped off while trying to figure out why it wouldn't stay locked in place. It's not fit properly, the dimensions for are off somewhere. Others have reported a similar issue on AR15.com with their storage compartments.

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Then there's the little rubber o-ring that holds the firing pin retainer pin in place. It doesn't fit right, either. Others report this problem with their rifles on the Bushmaster forums on AR15.com as well. You basically have to use a hammer to pound it in to seat so it won't prevent you from reassembling your rifle. Here's what the pin looks like with the o-ring mounted and in the carrier. When it's like this, you rarely can reassemble the rifle as the carrier won't fit into its rails.

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Here's the culprit.

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Once you remove the o-ring...

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The retainer pin fits below flush and the rifle can be easily assembled.

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The owners manual says it's safe to fire the rifle without the o-ring but it says to replace it if its damaged or missing. I'm not sure if I will start to see damage to the pin or pin hole with the o-ring removed.

The sling mount points just leave you scratching your head. I love the idea of quick detach mounting points on the rifle. But their location and the fact one point doesn't have the quick detach but instead uses a traditional loop mounting point makes you wonder what the engineers at BM were thinking.

Here's the single loop mounting point, and probably the point that most users would want to use at some point.

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The sling mounting point on the rear of the stock only exists on the left side of the rifle. What you would think is a mounting point on the right side of the butt stock isn't, it's just a screw hole holing the mount for the left side of the rifle.

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If you fold the stock and have your sling attached to this rearward point on the butt stock, you can't use the sling anymore as the stock doesn't lock in the folded position. I will either snap back open as you walk around or the rifle will flop around with the muzzle wanting to point up in the air. Here's what it looks like with the sling mounted to both forward mounting points with the stock folded.

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Keep in mind the stock doesn't lock in the folded position... strange.

The gas regulator is marked U and S. This stands for "Suppressed" and "Unsupressed". If you move it to the "Suppressed" setting, it basically turns the gas completely off as there's no hole in the regulator for this setting. There's nothing in between. On the SCAR you have high and low cycle so you can adjust your gas system for different types of ammo and conditions (like if the rifle is dirty). Not so with the ACR. There is another regulator I've seen floating around that's marked "H" and "L" but you have to call up Bushmaster and tell them you're having problems with your rifle cycling 5.56mm ammo before they'll send it to you. The H stands for "high pressure" or 5.56mm ammo, and the L stands for "low pressure" or .223 ammo.

The last thing that I find odd is the selector lever. For me, the ambi-lever is located in a bad position. Even though it's a relatively small lever, I always hit my index/firing finger when trying to disengage the safety to fire. Once it's disengaged, my index finger rides on top of the bottom end of the lever which becomes uncomfortable during extended shooting as the lever digs into your finger.

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I'll cover these quirks in a future installment video, but I thought I would share them with you guys before I have a chance to put that video together.
 
8.4 lbs is pretty heavy for a rifle with so much plastic. A lot of issues it seems too! All this for well over $3k after taxes. Yikes!! Imho a much better rifle for the same price is the Sig Blk special (non-res too)
 
There are some little quirks with the ACR. I'll cover these quirks in a future installment video, but I thought I would share them with you guys before I have a chance to put that video together.

Pistol Grip Compartment - this would appear to be a standard Magpul MIAD/MOE grip core (CR123 battery if I'm not mistaken). Odd since Magpul probably designed this to their specifications, too.

Traditional Loop Mount Mount - I'm wondering if this was perhaps designed in-mind with the Magpul MS2 sling (since you can't run the ASAP on the ACR).

Stock Mounting Point - this is actually fairly standard on Magpul stocks; I believe the QD mount is reversible.

Selector Lever - very unusual, and the positioning definitely leaves something to be desired. Perhaps if it had a lower profile?

O-Ring Retainer - Mildot and I were discussing this, and this is just bizarre! Just the wrong size o-ring? Please let us know if you find anything else out with this particular aspect.

In terms of weight between the two, I can't help but wonder if the "tool-less" system on the ACR accounts for some of that. I believe the aluminium hand guard on the ACR is probably a bit heavier as well (a few people have commented that it seems nose heavy), and there's probably a negligible difference between the pistol grips.

Thanks again for the insight and videos - greatly appreciated.
 
Here's what a member on M4Carbine.net had to say,looks like he has some "cred" in his signature line?

A couple tidbits to help you and other ACR shooters out there. This is just my own personal advice, not official word from Bushmaster or Magpul (I'm no longer an employee.)

Toss the oring. With a spring loaded firing pin it is pointless, as the firing pin retaining pin will not fall out on its own.

The suppressed gas setting should be just that, for use with suppressors. There is (should be) a smaller hole in the selector, it shouldn't just shut the gas off. Try running it with a suppressor.

The stock is designed with a ramped detent to hold it in the folded position but to be able to open just by pulling. A full locking detent was considered in which the user would have to lift the whole butt assembly to to return the buttstock to the firing position. This was not adopted by BM, as you can see.

The sling mount that's just a loop was meant for guys who like to run a single point, as I among others did/do in the military. As far as the QD mounts, there's another cup you put in the back of the stock. There's one threaded cup and one unthreaded, so you run a screw through one and into the threaded cup, and have QD cups on both sides. I'm not sure if this is an optional item from BM, but that was the original idea.

That grip core is from a MIAD/MOE but I never left it in there.

The ambi selector gets a lot of people, but you have to have it on the modern battle rifle, the "Next Gen", I shaved them down to just a stub. Still works fine.

Overall good solid video. One thing you could have mentioned was the alternate buttstocks for the ACR. The fixed is ok, it's simple and light, but the PRS back end is really nice for precision oriented rigs. Also a big source of rumors was the barrel, which was an AR barrel with a spacer, a specific port size, and one relief groove for the op rod guide seen in you vid. I doubt it has changed.

Looking forward to next vid, but as mentioned, test both with and both without brakes, even if you also include an "as-is-out-of-the-box" test.
Justin
__________________
Former Magpul R&D/Designer of Massoud
Currently with Kinetic Research Group
www.KRG-OPS.com
 
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